- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
The use of depleted uranium munitions has been fiercely debated, with opponents like the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust, including cancers and birth defects.
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dropping a bunch of depleted uranium around seems a lot like the actions of a state that couldn’t give less of a shit about the wellbeing of the people living there
“To the last Ukrainian” is no longer enough, now future Ukrainians have to die too.
Again?
UK did it last time. But yeah, same shit under a different name.
Yet more confirmation that the West regards Ukrainians as subhuman, and that they know they’re not getting the territory back. Generations of birth defects, the unexploded bombs that cluster bombs leave behind, more and more people being drafted and shoved into a meat grinder in a war that’s already lost, just so some American ghouls can make a bit of extra cash off their Raytheon stocks.
None of this was worth it. But it’s going to keep happening. The US will keep arming Nazis and pushing war over diplomacy and destabilizing everything until something is done to get rid of those bastard war profiteers and the ghouls who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan.
This shit’s so fucking stupid. Can’t wait for the chickenhawks to call me a bad person while sitting behind their keyboards demanding others be forced to fight in their stead.
although the Ukrainians using such rounds in Ukraine also seem to regard other Ukrainians as subhuman
Yup, defence is definitely what they shouldn’t do. Russia is obviously doing God’s work here.
This war wouldn’t have even happened in the first place if not for the United States.
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Ah yes, history started in 2022. Mind reminding me by whose sabotage caused the Soviet Union to be illegaly disbanded? Because guess what, this story starts in 1989 and context for many of it’s intricacies begins for a few cases even earlier. Including the Nazis of Ukraine and why they are so prominent in our (Hexbear and Lemmygrad) discussions.
Geopolitics and conflicts aren’t defined by boots on the ground action, that is just an end stage and consequence of escalating actions done beforehand. So no, there is no NATO soldiers in the room with us right now. But there is plenty of high ranking officials, military and not, who have been cooking this proxy war for a while now and the consequence is Russian aggression and deaths of thousands.
All of this could’ve been avoided. But you don’t care. You just want to be above them morally, as that’s all that matters for you. Being on the “good team”, like it’s sports.
“Can you see those aggresive ruskies? Killing innocents without reason! At least we aren’t like them!”
Ironic amd sadening.
Are the high ranking officials in the room with us now
Ahh wonderful, time for so many future children to be born horribly disfigured via contaminated drinking water. Also don’t forget all the booming cancer rates!
We have advanced beyond fighting to the last Ukranian and are now involving future Ukranians
Every person involved in making this decision deserves to be buried in an unmarked grave with the weapons they love so much. How many innocent people completely uninvolved with the war are going to grow up suffering the effects of depleted uranium rounds? Another absolutely monstrous decision in a long line of monstrous decisions by the US government.
Yes, we get it, the response to literally every decision you don’t like is massacre of the people you don’t like
What do you think should be done with war profiteers that destroy societies for money?
The same that should be done to all fascists, including the red ones
Seeing one thing Hm, this is like every thing
-The Eternal Lib
It’s almost like I’ve seen this same redfash response multiple times 🤔
What can I say we like methods that get results
It’s almost like my original comment was correct
Your original comment was word salad.
Just because you can’t understand it, doesn’t mean it’s word salad comrade
“You are treating a specific example like a broad generalization to deflect someone’s valid point”
vs.
“Heard that one before
”Redfash one hell of an oxymoron considering the reds are in the habit of killing fash.
Are you aware of what depleted uranium does to the human body? Innocent people are going to be dealing with the consequences of a decision made by a handful of people across the planet for decades after the war ends. Does poisoning generations of people sound like “defending” Ukrainians to you?
But Depleted uranium isn’t enriched uranium.
You’re lying.
Depleted uranium is still a very dangerous heavy metal. It just doesn’t irradiate what it poisons.
Who said it was? It’s still an environmental contaminant, a carcinogen, and linked to a rise in birth defects after its use in Iraq
It’s use will have consequences far outside of the conflict and ruin the lives of who knows how many people who had absolutely no say in this war and I’m supposed to cheer it on?
Yes, but why are you upset about this particular heavy metal as opposed to all the others involved in weapons?
The op is specifically about depleted uranium but hey, if you want to make the case that we shouldn’t be sending weapons to Ukraine in the first place I’m not going to argue against it
In that case, why do you pretend to care only about certain weapons when you don’t want any weapons sent?
depleted uranium is a radioactive carcinogen, and linked to substantial increases in birth defects and cancer in Iraq
- Yes, I’m aware of the effects of depleted uranium on the human body; are you? 2) What would you propose to help Ukraine evict the genocidal invaders from its territory?
No analysis, just vibes. Gonna go genocide some mashed potatoes rn
Just stepped in someones front yard without permission, which is technically an invasion, and ive been told this is tantamount to genocide. Am I an imperialist war criminal, Hexbear?
Guilty of all charges.
Sounds like a typical fash pastime
Now we’re just throwing genocide into the mix?
No
What would you propose to help Hawaii evict genocidal invaders from its territory?
Non radioactive munitions.
Show this thread to someone from the 1980s and they would kill themselves. Mainly over your shit
What a compelling response 🙄
Bruh said le sigh…
It’s a tankie, that’s their answer to everything they can’t strawman around.
pretty funny coming from a dronie
Yeah, “dronie” would be the correct term a tankie would use for a person who supports a country that was invaded by fascists defending themselves.
The only fascists in this conflicts are the ones you support, they’re pretty open about being fascists too. These are the actual people defending themselves from scum like you https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
No, the only fascists are the ones that crossed the border into Ukraine and are currently being pushed out. According to the article you linked, it states it’s not possible to conclusively prove who launched those cluster munitions in October.
I’ve noticed the Russian Fascists haven’t had a problem using cluster bomb on civilians, targeting hospitals and non-military health care facilities and generally committing random warcrimes.
You know, the simple solution for the war crimes to end would be for the Russian invaders to admit they fucked up, retreat to the borders that were recognized in 2013 and start preparing for the trials at The Hague.
But, Putin is too weak and much like Tankies need to tank… Russian fascists need to fash.
The regime you support has been doing all of this to people of Donbas for eight years, and even CNN covered this https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
People like you didn’t care, and all of a sudden you pretend to give a shit about people of Ukraine. You’re just a morally bankrupt scumbag.
They aren’t that dangerous as a weapon of war. The uranium is depleted, as the name suggest. The alternative is heavy metal, which is also dangerous to breathe in. It’s war and it sucks for health. Maybe there shouldn’t have been an invasion…
Any heavy metal causes similar issues. Heavy metal will be used, whether it’s uranium or something else. Should they just stop shooting?
Unironically yes. A peace deal was in the works last year until, according to the Ukranian Pravda, Boris Johnson pressured Zelensky not to go through with it. This would have stopped the fighting and resulted in some withdrawal of Russian troops, but since the West is more interested in weakening their geopolitical rivals and helping the weapons industry rake in profit than ending the war, they squashed any possibility of that happening.
No, Ukraine didn’t want to give up but they were becoming desperate. Boris Johnson came in to let them know the West was finally willing to offer some support. Ukraine giving up would not have resulted in the withdrawal of russian troops from their newly conquered territory
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7903104/ this shit is still causing birth defects in Iraq. This is Ukraine’s future now.
And so do other heavy metals. What do you suggest they use that won’t have negative health impacts (which is ironic for something designed to kill, but whatever)?
Uranium is a very dangerous heavy metal, it just isn’t radioactive.
Depleted Uranium is definitely radioactive. It’s depleted but there are still radioactive isotopes in it. It’s relatively same to handle until it’s fired and some of it turns to dust. The dust is both poisonous and radioactive. The toxicity of it is probably worse than the radiation but they’re both still bad.
The radioactivity is a problem its just like, not significant compared. Sorry my b
Nowhere did I make the claim that it was, that doesn’t change a thing
I’m replying to the person replying to you
My bad, I got the colors of the bars mixed up
Ah, yes, a nice hexbear to giggle at on my Sunday evening.
Post your hog
🌽 🌽 🌽
Wine cave warrior NAFO ghouls are already doing Adults In The Room armchair calculations about how these death treats will increase chances of a profitable victory for their corporate masters by .03216% and how it’s a heroic sacrifice that disposable Ukrainians must make to defend the land for future profitability.
🍷 🍷 
Why though? Can’t imagine that these rounds are going to change the course of the war, so why? Are they out of non-Uranium ones?
They are harder and penetrate armour better. So yes they will provide an advantage.
The sooner Russian occupiers are no longer murdering Ukrainians and dropping mines over every square meter of land, the less harm comes to Ukrainians.
Tungsten penetrators perform better than DU ones. They’re just more expensive and Ukrainian lives aren’t worth that much.
Plenty enough to rip through the Russian armor! These are just old stockpiles of ammunition that weren’t getting use anyways.
I know it hard for the recently scratched liberals to understand this, but It’s perfectly okay to decommission a weapon, you don’t have to use it on people to get rid of it.
love to refresh my arsenal via proxy war
Love to get rid of my toxic waste by simply poisoning a different populace
No individual measure aside from troops on the ground or nukes is going to change the course of the war by itself.
The ammunition is very effective at punching through the armor. But the Ukrainians will be fucked when in 5 years Leukemia in children is skyrocketing
Maybe but if they lose the war will that be better?
So what, you’re suggesting that right now they are “winning”? By what metric are they “winning”? Western brownie points? Because all of the teenagers and young adults that are 6ft under would beg to differ.
the cruelty is the point
Nope the effectiveness is the point.
Imagine being this bloodthirsty you’re willing to let Ukrainians suffer the effects of depleted uranium just to kill more Russians
“let” Ukrainians.
Your patronising colonial mask is slipping.
Ukrainians have ASKED for these weapons so they can get rid of the murderous, child torturing Russians out of their country.
Stop amplifying the propaganda of child torturers.
“Opposing the poisoning of masses of innocent people who had no say in the war is propaganda. I am very smart!”
it’s kind of impressive how consistently we get the dumbest takes possible from lemmy.ee
Imagine defending a regime that targets hospitals and schools for missile attacks and rains white phosphorous down on cities.
If the Russians cared about anything beyond their own expansionist agenda, they’d retreat and end the war they started. If you actually cared about the suffering of Ukrainians, you would stop being a mouthpiece for that regime.
Fuck, I almost thought you were on about the US and Israel but guess not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Too bad you still are pushing for the war to even continue. You don’t want the Russians to genocide every single Ukrainian so you still propose they should just do it themselves and continue running straight into landmines. 🙄
How about some peace talks? Maybe? Oh wait Boris Johnson thought otherwise…
I think Russia would be the most bloodthirsty if this was a contest. Good try though.
Whataboutism.
Please don’t use that against them, even as a bit as it’s extremely powerful and causes irreperable emotional damage. Be mindful, libs are people too.
Na, that’s still you
Also least self aware
The body count of the West is several orders of magnitude higher than Russia’s
Depleted utanium is a war crime
Depleted utanium is a war crime
Actually, it’s not. Quoted from the British article about the DU rounds they’re shipping for the Challenger 2s:
The UK MoD insists that the depleted uranium shells it is sending to Ukraine are not prohibited by any international agreement.
It says that under Article 36 of the First Protocol of 1977 Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 1949, the UK’s depleted uranium shells are “capable of being used lawfully in international armed conflict”.
President Vladimir Putin has warned that if the UK does send depleted uranium shells to Ukraine, “Russia will have to respond accordingly, given that the West collectively is already beginning to use weapons with a nuclear component”.
The MoD replied in a statement: “The British Army has used depleted uranium in its armour-piercing shells for decades. Russia knows this, but is deliberately trying to disinform.”
Stating the use of DU is a war crime is just Russian mouthpieces repeating Kremlin lies.
Ah yes, the British… They know a thing or two about warcrimes.
While the British don’t know as much about war crimes as the Russians, this time they’re technically correct. Technically correct is the best correct.
Whatever weapon the enemy is using is a war crime!
Recharged utanium, however, is a war benevolence
You are spreading disinformation. https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/use-of-depleted-uranium-shells-is-a-crime-against-humanity
I’m sure Ukrainian soldiers on the front line are worried about cancer and birth defects.
Yes, Ukrainian soldiers on front line are worried about cancer and birth defects. They are rational human beings who hope to return to their homes and live long lives and grow healthy children, not some subhumans with only intent to kill, kill, kill, as you wish to think.
I don’t know how rational this is. Given how many soldiers have died so far, if I were a Ukrainian sent to fight on the front line, I wouldn’t expect to be coming back. Rather I’d hope that I contribute to the defeat of the enemy, so that my children or my comrades children don’t grow up under Russian rule. I’m not in their shoes of course. There’s no universal motivation so maybe what you say is more prevalent. That said, this war might not end without soldiers doing a lot more killing so “kill, kill, kill” might be an appropriate viewpoint.
Everyone should worry. Depleted uranium will contaminate large crop production areas and later these grains will be sold all around the world. Everybody will eat some.
What does the “depleted” part of depleted uranium mean?
Are you denser then Uranium? Why do you think there is an issue with waste from nuclear power plants? Hint: it is radioactive!
Calls me dense, doesn’t know what depleted uranium is
Sure, whatever makes you feel lighter.
Depleted means that the radioactive isotope is lower in concentration. It still is somehow radioactive (it’s almost fine if not ingested) and still remains a heavy and toxic metal.
Right, so how are all these large areas and crops going to be contaminated?
When they explode, they spread radioactive dust into the surrounding area. If that area is ever farmed it can contaminate the crops and cause cancer to anyone breathing in the dust
And what is the level of risk of that happening?
It’s not about them. It’s the children who find the spent ammo later.
This crap is the reason that there are birth defects spikes anywhere the US military operates.
The amount of Ukrainians dying right now will pale in comparison to those effected by the munitions.
The controversy around depleted uranium rounds is way overblown.
Even in Iraq the evidence is super inconclusive. And yes birth defects rose however the entire country basically collapsed for years and nothing clearly indicates it was the DU used.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s nasty stuff. But this is war, more people are getting killed by bombs then any DU related cancer can cause.
In Basra the rate of leukemia in children rose dramatically and that is too specific of a disease to not be linked to DU exposure due to the heavy use of it in surrounding tank battles.
How do you you it’s not linked to any of the other hundreds of dangerous chemicals?
Because the issue is specific to the region and started specifically after the tank battle where DU ammunition was used. If it would be a general issue with some dangerous chemical being used, we’d expect to see similiar issues in other regions. Of course it is hypotheticakky possible that at the same time some dangerous and persistant chemical exposure happened in the region, but that is not plausible and also the US would have a strong interest in finding such an alternative explanation. But there isn’t any research published, that provided an alternative.
Also look into the wording of the US when sending the ammunition to Ukraine. They state that no radiation hazard is to be expected for the Ukrainians. They do not talk about a toxicological hazard.
- correlation ≠ causation. 2) if the disease is caused by DU, is it due to the radioactivity or the fact that DU is a heavy metal?
i never said it had to be because of radiation. Even just in its effect as a heavy metal it seems to be much worse. Also it could be that it becomes airborn more easily than other metals such as lead, so the wreckage of tanks shot with DU are more dangerous to the people cleaning them up.
Why are you so worried about speculated harms when Ukrainians are actually being raped, tortured, and murdered by russians? Your lack of humanity is showing
Turning “we need to weigh benefits and costs” into “your lack of humanity is showing” is quite a take and obviously has nothing to do with reality.
This makes sense.
I imagine there’s a lot more reasons for birth defect spikes post US mil ops in addition to this. The military isn’t exactly an environmentally conscious operation. ☠️
Sure, burn pits and other crap will help.
But this kind of ammo, kids will find and hang on to. They bring it home, add it to their collection of other cool shit they’ve scavenged…and then their brothers and sisters are born with malformed limbs, mishaped heads, etc.
There have been a lot of stories written about it over the years. The one I read was specifically about Iraq I believe, but it was a while ago.
To be fair, the impact of DU is mostly because of heavy metal poisoning, not radioactivity.
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Ok but the alternatives are not environmentally conscious either, finally the people who’s land it is should be the ones making choices about the conditions of that land
The alternative is to stop using people of Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia.
The people of Ukraine seem to have a somewhat different view on the matter
That’s a really convenient narrative based on the fallacy of homogenizing Ukraine. Let’s take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Maybe learn a bit about the subject first.
election in 2004
2010 election
I wonder if anything of note happened between then and now, in other news Donald Trump is still president and gay marriage is illegal in the US
Maybe learn a bit about the subject first.
I suggest you go to Kyiv in the grocery store and explain this to the workers there
Oh yeah, things of note definitely happened since then
- https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
- https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
I suggest you go to Donbas and explain the above to people there that the regime you support has been maiming for the past decade.
Then why don’t you ask Russia to withdraw, wouldn’t that be easier?
Russia is obviously not going to withdraw, and you or me asking Russia to withdraw isn’t going to make it happen. However, people living in western countries do have at least some influence on their own regimes. Of course, the reason western regimes can keep the proxy war going is precisely because a lot of scumbags are cheering it on right now.
Is ammo made from lead that much better? I honestly don’t know. Sure the radiation sucks but Uranium, at least the isotope they’re sending is “barely” radioactive. It’s the same Uranium people had in their plates etc. The toxicity is probably the far more relevant factor but I don’t know how Uranium compares to lead.
Depleted uranium is not really that radioactive. Everything is technically radioactive eventually though. Depleted uranium is what’s left behind when you seperate the radioactive stuff out. It’s a heavy metal still, so isn’t good for you, but heavy metals will always be involved. Trying to have a war using only healthy, organic, ethically sourced munitions isn’t going to happen.
We have to remember that Russia caused this war, however. So they also caused the depleted uranium being a possible health risk for future ukrainian children.
Whatever munition you choose, it will lead to heavy metal poisoning.
depleted uranium is much worse than conventional ammo.
Being invaded is worse.
The quickest way to save the most amount of lives is whatever gets rid rid of Russia the quickest.
No question.
Depleted Uranium is hardly dangerous.
Another booby trapped mine with a grenade underneath gets placed by Russians every 4 minutes.
Another Ukrainian citizen is tortured.
And now there are reports of Ukrainian children being tortured.
Bring on the napalm.
Depleted Uranium is dangerous for anyone exposed to it. It will be a persistant environmental pollutant that could render large areas unsuitable for agriculture. Downplaying the effects is stupid and dangerous.
We need to talk about the effects and weigh the military benefit vs. the long term problems. Also for the military benefit you cannot take the shortcut of assuming no AP munitions to be used otherwise. Also the question is whether stronger AP abilities are needed, as Abrams should make quick work of T64s and probably T72s with normal AP rounds too.
So we have to weigh a potentially marginal benefit with a significant long term health effect. I trust the Ukranian army and government to make that decision, but again the issues shouldn’t be downplayed. Because of downplaying and ignoring the issues with it there is thousands of American and British vets that suffer from diseases and birth defects in their children, struggling to get it recognised and properly compensated.
Depleted uranium is not much different from lead. Heavy metals are unhealthy. It is barely radioactive as it is made from the rather stable uranium isotopes. (Hence depleted)
Uranium is pretty toxic compared to lead. LD50 is roughly 114 mg/kg vs. 4665 mg/kg depending on source. If you happen to get that dust inside your body, the radiation isn’t going to help you stay healthy either.
the “quickest way to save the most amount of lives” is peace talks. Both armies are locked in a stalemate and the war is going nowhere.
Whatever water you drink, it will lead to heavy metal poisoning (eventually).
Luckily, the uranium dust is only a problem if the Ukrainian tanks actually get in sight of the Russians.
Turns out UK managed to develop stealth tanks and didn’t tell anybody.
Tankies shaking in their boots over that Abrams 120mm DU APFSDS slicing though Russian steel like butter.
It’s so easy to trigger tankie bridgades. How many posts yall got about me now? Tagged me in a few!
Bloodthirsty liberal Nazis cheering for generations of genetic deformity to prolong a pointless war between two fascist capitalist forces
more concerned about DU slicing through the dna of ukrainian children for years after the war like in Iraq
No you’re not, but its a convenient point for you to push.
What world issue isnt a convenient excuse for you people to shame the western Left?? (who has no direct connection to the conflict, nor should they, no matter how it’s spun)
Stuka username claiming others aren’t concerned about Ukrainians lmao
Remind me what the nazis did in Ukraine again?
I’ve had this username for a two decades and you tankies are the only ones to ever call me a nazi.
Know why? Cause I’ve never said a damn thing to support nazis. Yall just assume everyone’s as batshit crazy and fanatical as you.
I can hear your frustration as you search my history.
Yall just assume everyone’s as batshit crazy and fanatical as you.
You are currently celebrating the genetic destruction of future generations of Ukranian people. An actually genocidal act.
I’ve had this username for a two decades
Yes, you’ve been stanning for nazis for at least that long.
You are coming off as very not nice.
Ableism?
Aaaah, but they started it…
okay nazi enthusiast, whatever you say
Read this in the voice of a screaming German grandpa shaking his fist, tightly clutching a war medal. Hilarious
The nazis invaded and raped, tortured, and killed Ukrainians, which is why they’re fighting back.
Hell Yes brother, we’ll finally drown those Azov bastards in the Dnieper. We fought them for eight long years and we’ll do it again if we have to.
Sorry comrade, you made a mistake, but I’ll fix it for you! We and Azov will drown the russian bastards in the Dnipr after fighting them for eight years. Can’t wait 🥰
So that would make you the nazi supporter
we and Azov
Mask off moment
Wine cave warriors feel so very tough watching death and killing on their screens.
Imagine having a brain so smooth that you think abrams are going to fare any better than the leopards.
The first wunderwaffen didn’t work but that’s OK, the president says he’s sending more wunderwaffen
I mean if these people were capable of rational thinking then they wouldn’t be liberals in the first place.
Can’t wait for Azov to become the new Taliban and bite America in the ass
File size requirements made me create this low res monstrosity lmao, also please do replace the Tilted Towers for the Palace of Culture and Sciences for thr more realistic scenario.
“Lol, how could people in the past be so dumb? Anyway, I’m off to give cluster bombs to some Nazi paramilitary groups.”
FYI that text was not in rambo
TIL. Apparently what it actually said was “The Gallant People of Afghanistan,” but the point is largely the same.
I thought they went back and changed it after the fact.
That’s what the rumor said, but googling seems to indicate it was a hoax. Though like I said the original is basically the same thing.
I mean who else it could even mean in USA movie? Especially considering what was in that particular movie.
That guy is about as real as the elections in a Soviet country.
There’s no proof he’s ever even been to Ukraine 😂
Seems like a guy who would have fit right in: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Aw jeez his made up record would have fit right into this article?
Who cares he’s still not real.
How do you know? So it is just your opinion? There is a video with testimony - what exactly do you got that makes you so sure?
There’s literally no proof he’s ever been to Ukraine. You want me to prove a negative. Good luck with that.
Edit: lol I’m gonna do the impossible. He couldn’t have been in Ukraine while being simultaneously in prison.
about as real as the elections in a Soviet country
Because capitalist elections between corporate donors are so real lmao
Are you going to vote for Bloomberg or Blackstone next year? Good little piggy.
You Americans are something else. There’s a world outside your little shithole bubble you know.
I’m not even American. Our economy is global and America is the imperial core of that economy.
One of my local PMs was caught taking bribes from the NRA a few years back ffs
bite America in the ass
It won’t be America it bites in the ass; they’ll be a deadly menace to their neighbors in the West (as I would imagine Russia is going to remain on its toes about armed Ukrainian militias). They’ve been pretty open about their far right views. Frankly this was actually a brilliant strategy for the government; much like how they turned the Middle East into nations yearning for America’s protection, so too will the rest of (Western) Europe now become new clients. As a business strategy it’s brilliant, my only question is why European governments and the idiots who vote for them over there actually going along with this; you’re watching the car careening towards the cliff, why are you cheering the guy pushing it from behind rather than slamming on the brakes.
Even the Taliban didn’t commit 9/11 until the US had already been engaged in military actions in Afghanistan for years by that point. War profiteering is the point.
Oh well… The amount of health risks that these rounds would cause would pale in comparison to the mines that the Orcs have planted everywhere. Anything to drive out the invaders!
Orcs
The only time before the Ukraine War that I saw this term used to refer to real human beings was on Stormfront
Libs saw the events unfolding and were all like “YES! Now I can do socially acceptable racism! ORCORCORCORCORCORC”
The mask fell off awful quick.
OP is known tankie just fyi. Doesn’t justify US or Ukrainian actions but make sure you understand that the reason for posting this isn’t out of any actual concern for human beings. They’re also peddling covid conspiracies
So let me get this straight, according to you:
The people that don’t support either side of the war and want to end it as fast as possible through peace talks are evil tankies.
And the bloodthirsty monsters that want to prolong a pointless war, arm Azov Nazis and kill as many people as possible with illegal inhumane weapons that scar generations are freedom-loving liberals.
Seems like the tankies are the more reasonable ones in this situation.
So you neither support the rapist nor the victim. How enlightened centrist of you.
The people that don’t support either side of the war
They (and you) are clearly supporting Russia.
If we’re supporting capitalist Russia the same way NATO tools are supporting Nazi Ukraine then where are our comments saying we should send money and weapons to Russia to defeat the Ukrainian ‘orcs’, then? Show me where these pro-Russia comments are, I’ll wait.
Get real, none of us have said anything in support of modern capitalist Russia. We’re communists ffs, would we really support the thing that killed the Soviet Union? Use your head.
Next, you’ll tell me that people against the war on terror in the Middle East were on the side of the Taliban.
want to end it as fast as possible through peace talks are evil tankies.
Surrender == the end of Ukraine. There’s 0% chance of Russia honouring it for any meaningful length of time. They’ll see it as a weakness of Ukraine and they’ll just build up their forces again and attack. Any legitimate peace deal HAS to have the condition of Russia pulling out of all Ukrainian territory otherwise it’ll completely legitimise nations to start wars to take land for themselves. Russia loses nothing by withdrawing. And you 100% know this, which is why tankies keep peddling it - they can claim to be on the moral high ground by saying “we want peace! everyone else are bloodthirsty monsters!” but in reality they know it’ll just lead to more violence and genocide. Imagine calling the Allies blood thirsty monsters in WWII because they didn’t accept a peace deal with Nazi Germany because they wanted it to end as fast as possible.
Nobody wants bloodshed. Ukraine didn’t ask for this war. But they’re not going to give up and let Russia get away with a land grab.
Seems like the tankies are the more reasonable ones in this situation.
If by reasonable that you want Russia to win this war then yeah, sure.
otherwise it’ll completely legitimise nations to start wars to take land for themselves
Have you been sleeping for the last decades? There were plenty of wars. The US didn’t stop them, in fact, the US started a bunch of them, and more were started by US allies, or waged with US help. The US supports illegal occupation (“taking land”) all over, too.
So is there actually any norm anyone adheres to? Seems to me the actual norm is “don’t do anything the US doesn’t like”. It’s got nothing to do with starting wars or taking land.
otherwise it’ll completely legitimise nations to start wars to take land for themselves
no one tell this guy what a nation is it’ll break his heart
This isn’t a children’s movie, there is no good guy in this war.
No one fucking wins, if Azov ‘wins’ then Ukraine will become even more of a Nazi shithole and a husk of an economy as the US calls in all its debts. If Russia ‘wins’ then it won’t be much better off either.
Nobody wants bloodshed. Ukraine didn’t ask for this war.
Than advocate for peace talks instead of grinding more Ukrainians and Russians into paste, you bloodthirsty ghoul.
But they’re not going to give up and let Russia get away with a land grab.
See? You do want bloodshed. You care more about dirt than human life.
There are only two outcomes of this war: A bloody long battle where innocent people get thrown in the meatgrinder regardless of which side comes out on top, or we get both sides to stop fighting and do peace talks so they can compromise and stop the killing as soon as possible. Nothing good will ever come out of this war. It needs to end as soon as possible to stop the bloodshed. The concern here should be stopping the loss of life as soon as possible, not caring about lines on a fucking map. For supposedly being pro-Ukraine, NATO sure loves killing Ukrainians.
That’s an interesting point, but have you considered Harry Potter?
OP is known tankie just fyi.
Hilarious.
They posted a Reuters article
Is that an evil tankie propaganda website now?
known tankie lmao
peddling covid conspiracies
like what?
Probably the conspiracy that the virus is still a pandemic and people are still dying and we should all wear masks, you know the truth
Yeah that’s a silly article. Strange that a supposed “tankie” would post something that pushes the Chinese lab leak conspiracy though, especially from an outlet run by an NYT liberal like Bari Weiss.
tankies don’t have coherent ideologies, or they wouldn’t be tankies
Define tankie, or do you just go off of vibes and guesses without any coherent thoughts about your opponents yourself?
