Luis Chamberlain sent out the modules changes today for the Linux 6.6 merge window. Most notable with the modules update is a change that better builds up the defenses against NVIDIA’s proprietary kernel driver from using GPL-only symbols. Or in other words, bits that only true open-source drivers should be utilizing and not proprietary kernel drivers like NVIDIA’s default Linux driver in respecting the original kernel code author’s intent.

Back in 2020 when the original defense was added, NVIDIA recommended avoiding the Linux 5.9 for the time being. They ended up having a supported driver several weeks later. It will be interesting to see this time how long Linux 6.6+ thwarts their kernel driver.

  • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏@lemmy.one
    4·
    1 year ago

    Oh wow the comments on Phoronix for this one are bonkers.

    From what I understand (because it wasn’t clear to me from either of the TLDRs posted here) Nvidia’s proprietary graphics driver has been calling parts of the kernel that they shouldn’t be, because their driver is closed source.

    These seem to be parts of the kernel that another company may own patents to, but has only licensed it to the kernel for free use with GPL open source code only, i.e. closed source/proprietary code is not allowed to use it.

    Nvidia seems to have open sourced a tiny communication shim to try and bypass this restriction, so their closed source driver talks to the shim, and the shim talks to the restricted code in the kernel, that Nvidia does not have a license to use. This is a DMCA violation, hence why the Kernel devs are putting in preventions to block the shim, as far as I can see.

    I don’t understand the small minority of commenters there defending a la soulless corp Nvidia, who is blatantly in the wrong here. Some commenters have gone as far as to call the Linux kernel maintainers “zealots”, would not be surprised if they are alts for Nvidia devs…

    Edit: typo

    • 520@kbin.social
      21·
      1 year ago

      Then isn’t the correct solution to sue Nvidia?

      It’s a legal issue with a legal solution.

      • Zardoz@lemmy.world
        1·
        1 year ago

        Yeah probably, but Nvidia can afford lawyers and delays for years. Much longer than any oss group could afford

      • cobra89@beehaw.org
        1·
        1 year ago

        So you want the company that licensed the patents to the Linux kernel for open source use to have to sue Nvidia for wrongly using their code? You want the company to have to spend a bunch of money suing Nvidia and possibly lose which would open the flood gates to more closed source code leeching off the Linux kernel?

        Yeah that’s going to make them want to keep licensing their IP to the Linux Foundation (which they’re probably doing for free).

        Or the maintainers can just submit a fairly simple patch to ensure that the kernel and the patents are being respected. Do you really think the first approach is the way to go?

        • 520@kbin.social
          1·
          1 year ago

          Neither is having your copyright infringed. Neither is wasting volunteer manpower playing a technical game of cat and mouse

    • Tetsuo@jlai.lu
      0·
      1 year ago

      Just a perspective on why people would support NVIDIA here:

      • They don’t believe in copyright law so they don’t mind whoever infringe on them. Especially since here it would make the proprietary driver work better.

      • They do care about copyright law but think having a working driver outweighs respecting them.

      Not my opinion here just saying that for some people usability trumps any other aspects.

      • Solar Bear@slrpnk.netEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        They don’t believe in copyright law so they don’t mind whoever infringe on them. Especially since here it would make the proprietary driver work better.

        I don’t believe in copyright law, but I especially don’t believe in partially enforced copyright law. Nvidia doesn’t get to use copyright to protect their proprietary code while infringing on the copyright of FOSS.

      • BaconIsAVeg@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        1 year ago

        Also, some of us are using Nvidia because we rely on software that doesn’t work on AMD. I really enjoy using Linux, but if it’s going to make my life difficult I’ll go back to using Windows with WSL.

        I agree Nvidia should resolve the licensing issues, but man GPL zealots get a such a raging hard-on for anything Nvidia related it’s funny to watch.

        • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          1·
          1 year ago

          Or maybe we should keep companies, which rake in billions of dollars, to a much higher standard??

          Nvidia could be better at open-sourcing their stuff. But they don’t. Blame them, not GPL.

        • priapus@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          It’s not going to effect you. No distro is going to ship a kernel that doesn’t work with the Nvidia driver, besides maybe some rolling ones, in which case you can just use the LTS kernel. This is drama between Nvidia and the rest of the kernel maintainers, and Nvidia will update their driver to deal with it, as they have done in the past.

          Shitting on people who care about FOSS because they don’t want to see massive companies get away with blatant copyright infringement is crazy.

          • BaconIsAVeg@lemmy.mlEnglish
            0·
            1 year ago

            3D rendering software using iRay. I’ve started trying to learn Blender, but I’ve still got thousands spent on assets and hardware which means I’m not going to run out tomorrow and pickup a new card. It all works fine under Wine, but the amount of Nvidia hate on here is just tiring.

            • Zucca@sopuli.xyz
              1·
              1 year ago

              So you use iRay as the rendering engine for Blender? And (I’m assuming a lot here) iRay doesn’t use CUDA, OpenCL etc, but straight talks to the GPU via graphics drivers, thus having hardware depency for nvidia GPU?

  • intelati@programming.dev
    2·
    1 year ago

    Riddle me this, why is there such a thing as proprietary drivers for anything? Especially consumer facing products like this?

    Don’t you want anyone and anything using your product in any situation? Help me understand NVIDIA’s bit with this?

    • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
      0·
      1 year ago

      I assume nVidia have licensed other code that they don’t have the rights to distribute the source code for.

      I get what the GPL fans want here, but it’s just going to lead to a gimped driver, no driver, or an even larger shim between the open and closed source bits. The Linux market is too small for nVidia to care.

      • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0·
        1 year ago

        The Linux market is too small for nVidia to care.

        The Linux gaming market is too small for Nvidia to care, but the GPU computing market isn’t.

        • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
          0·
          1 year ago

          So we can add “use an older kernel” and “use a modified kernel with that protection removed” to the list of options.

          • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            1 year ago

            Using an older kernel isn’t a long-term solution. And according to the kernel devs, either using and older kernel in that way or modifying the kernel to remove these protections still violates the license even if it bypasses the technical protections.

            (I’m guessing Nvidia will keep shimming and rely on either not being sued or winning the lawsuit.)

  • AceFour@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 year ago

    Perfect timing buying an AMD card yesterday to replace my old NVidia. Installed today, works like a champ. Issue resolved

      • Psy-Q@feddit.ch
        0·
        1 year ago

        What were some of the positives and negatives? Me personally, I have an RDNA2 card and got bitten by the gamma being too dark on hardware cursors (now resolved) and memory clock stuck at 1 GHz with some refresh rates (workaround is not to use refresh above ~144 Hz).

        • jack@sh.itjust.works
          1·
          9 months ago

          I have an RDNA3 card (upgraded from a 1080) and am running a multi-boot triple-head setup with mixed refresh rates (60, 144).

          Pros: most things work and work well. Installation of the physical card went without a hitch and it was relatively simple to install the drivers. No issues with web video, streaming, video encoding, or standard use.

          Cons: mesa, amdgpu, and Windows drivers are all lacking significant features - I am still unable to reliably control fan curves/speeds, clock speeds, etc. FreeSync is unusable as well. I have also been experiencing regular crashes on certain games (BG3, Apex Legends, etc.) and support has been nonexistent, despite similar complaints from other users. When the card does crash, it usually results in a ring timeout and an accompanied total session crash. AMD does not seem to be responsive to these issues in either their official forum or any other space where people are lodging complaints.

          The hardware seems fine; the drivers are the main issue. If I had to do it over again, I’d hold my nose and buy NVIDIA.

          EDIT: regarding the cursor issue, I’ve had to switch to a software cursor on Linux. The hardware cursor wasn’t showing up at all.

          Regarding game-specific issues, it seems a lot of problems stem from either a greedy low power mode or DirectX issues. I’ve had to set udev rules to alleviate some of my issues, but it hasn’t solved everything.

          EDIT 2: For anyone who comes across this post, it seems like the vast majority of the crashes on linux have been resolved as of kernel 6.7. Still lacking fine-grained control over fans/clocks, but stability seems much improved.