• Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
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      28 days ago

      Wtf pepe is considered alt-right because alt-right uses them sometimes??? I hear they also use English! Maybe English needs to get banned!

      • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        They didn’t just use it sometimes, they were using it as an intentional dog whistle, that is the difference. Part of dog whistling is choosing something that, otherwise, has had no real relationship to the thing it is being used as a dog whistle for.

        • reksas@sopuli.xyz
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          28 days ago

          so they can choose anything and we just have to stop using it because its their dogwhistle now?

          • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
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            28 days ago

            No, but you have to understand that it now comes with the context of being a WP dog whistle. The symbolism of the Nazis weren’t anything to their ideology before hand. They had widespread use for thousands of years. Now they, especially the primary one, is all but verboten in the west, and people who use things, like the swastika, as religious symbols, even know to tread with caution using it in the west. White hoods, and robes, have been used in cultural/religious regalia forever. However, you don’t use them in the US unless you consider being mistaken for a klan memeber.

            Can we reclaim pepe? Probably, it was minor compared to the aforementioned things, and the creator has done a lot to kibosh the commercial use of it from right wing people. However, it was that, and that context doesn’t just disappear because you don’t like it.

            • 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works
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              28 days ago

              There’s a whole documentary about reclaiming pepe called “feels good man”

              The more we discourage people from using pepe because WP and shitheads, the more they win.

              • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
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                28 days ago

                I agree, a number of the places I hang out online, and friends, use it. None of them are like that. However, when researching bigotry in culture, it will inevitably come up, and it’s significance as an indicator is complicated. So, best to read the details of the data, and what they have to say about it, beyond and chart, and headline, and keep in mind that there is real reason to attach the frog to the alt-right, but it is used in many other ways.

            • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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              24 days ago

              Can we reclaim pepe?

              We never lost it, imo. The vast majority of Pepe use is by people communicating nothing resembling a message of hate in any way.

                  • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
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                    28 days ago

                    I didn’t say, nor imply that. I am saying you have to operate within a world where this is how things are. Doesn’t matter what you think is good, right, ethical, whatever, this is what is, and you have to make you decisions with this in mind.

          • thedirtyknapkin@lemmy.world
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            28 days ago

            to me it’s kind of kind the nazi bar thing. if you’re at a bar with 2 Nazis, and you’re not a nazi, you’re still hanging out at a nazi bar.

            they fucking adore this frog. no other group has embraced it as strongly or consistently. I’m quite happy to let an old ass meme die because i find it distasteful now that it’s the favorite meme of nazis.

            • Voyajer@lemmy.world
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              26 days ago

              Except in this instance the bar is the meme and you can’t stop the Nazis from using it no matter what you do. Even if you move on to some other meme they can just as easily follow you, now no one knows what’s acceptable or not and for how long.

      • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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        24 days ago

        Yeah, I’m very much in the camp of “fuck you, you don’t get to have it” when it comes to extremist groups trying to co-opt other symbols.

        It’s extremely doable–the LGBT population has largely succeeded at doing exactly that with “queer”, for example–these days, basically nobody utters that word as a pejorative. Fuck you, it’s ours now. See what I mean?

        There are way more of us than them, we could literally do this for everything these dipshits try to ‘claim’.