• arin@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Pretty sure the guns i see the criminals use aren’t even legal. Crazy extended mags

    • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      This is the fundamental problem with gun regulation at the state level – they can be effectively abrogated by neighboring states with more lax regulation. FiveThirtyEight did a piece on this a while ago. In that article they show how strict gun laws in Illinois, California, and Maryland are defeated by guns flowing in from the surrounding states with more lax laws. The vast majority of gun crime is committed with guns which are illegally possessed, but were initially obtained through legal means.

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        That’s why Mexico is suing Arizona, and maybe Texas? Cali has strict gun laws so the cartels can’t get guns here. They have no issues getting guns in AZ and TX

        • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Yeah, that’s basically the legal theory of the suits. It’s pretty novel and there are a lot of issues with it.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Big part of the modern drug trade is fueled by arms sales passing South as collateral.

          US arms exports are paid for with Latin American drug money. And those arms help gangs engage in the human trafficking they need to produce recreational narcotics and amphetamines at industrial scale.

          • jnk@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            Wait are you implying that regulating fire arms in USA would help to deal with human traffic and drugs from mexico?

            I mean it makes sense, but doesn’t certain people hate mexicans and like guns a bit too much? Are they using their brains at all?

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Wait are you implying that regulating fire arms in USA would help to deal with human traffic and drugs from mexico?

              More describing the economic incentives of the opposition.

              I mean it makes sense, but doesn’t certain people hate mexicans and like guns a bit too much?

              On paper, sure. But in practice the folks profiting from the exchange can just blame the drugs and the crime on stupid weak leftists in government to deflect blame from the arms trafficking.

              Are they using their brains at all?

              Garbage in, garbage out. If all your information comes from gun-sponsored sources, you’ll end up with gun-sponsored views.

            • AA5B@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              You can’t even argue that Mexican Cartel members have a constitutional right to bear arms.

      • UnpluggedFridge@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Even though the law can be circumvented, it nonetheless provides resistance. Traveling to another state, filling out paperwork, paying extra money, etc all provide additional obstacles to overcome. If someone was having an acute mental problem and felt compelled to eat a barrel, a simple few hours delay in acquiring a gun can make all the difference. For someone planning on using a gun for criminal activity, at some point they might just consider employment as an easier alternative if acquiring a gun is too much of a pain.

        We have already seen this effect in reverse with regard to immigration. Legal immigration is such a painful crapshoot that people are willing to surrender their fate to cartels as an alternative.

        • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          That’s great and all, but the data are in the article. Your hypotheticals don’t do much to change the numbers of guns flowing in from other states. If your argument is that the counterfactual would be even more gun crime, you’re welcome to make it; it’s just a really weak argument to lean into.

    • Captain Howdy@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Wait… You’re telling me that they continue to do crimes with guns even when the guns are illegal? Criminals? Really? I refuse to believe it.

    • lud@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      The point of most gun control is to reduce the amount of guns not necessarily remove them all.

      Of course at least some criminals will always have guns but lots of deaths could be prevented by just reducing the amount of people with illegal or legal guns.

      It’s also much more likely for a potential criminal to become a criminal with a gun if it’s really easy to get guns, especially if they or someone they know (like parents) already own one.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      the guns i see the criminals use

      Are you running up to folks during a bank robbery and asking them for receipts?

      Or is this, like, guns you saw criminals use in a cartoon show?

      • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I assume they mean the ones they show on the news after a mass shooting.

          • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            I assume they’re more likely to show pictures of the weapon when the gun isn’t legal or has unusual features. I hadn’t even seen a bump stock before that shooting in Navada made them big news.

      • refalo@programming.dev
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        7 months ago

        over 80% of mass shooters at K-12 schools stole guns from family members, according to research funded by the National Institute of Justice

        Stolen and ghost guns absolutely make up a large percentage of the weapons used in crimes, there are many reports and statistics to back this up. If you need some hard data I’ll be happy to provide or you could do a quick web search as well.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Stolen and ghost guns absolutely make up a large percentage of the weapons used in crimes

          You’re leaning hard on the term “stolen” to describe a teenager using a parent’s firearm, particularly when the teen already has regular access to the weapon for target practice.

          Similarly, guns that have been anonymized after purchase aren’t something you can regulate against.

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Sure, that’s one of the missing links: owners need to be responsible for safeguarding their weapons or face consequences. Either it was an actual theft and the kid faces legal consequences for that too or it was careless behavior on the owner and they face partial consequences for the deaths and devastation

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              owners need to be responsible for safeguarding their weapons or face consequences

              We played this game with Beto O’Rourke. He tanked his electoral prospects by suggesting he’d enforce gun laws like any other governor would enforce drug laws.

              Between the Sandy Hook style conspiracy theories and the NRA hysteria, the onus is never on the gun owners. It’s always on the victims to not get shot.

        • s_s@lemmy.one
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          7 months ago

          So fewer guns to steal = few crimes?

          Sounds like extra taxes are a good idea.

            • Glytch@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Just commenting that “some major cities” is super general especially after they were talking about guns they had supposedly seen personally.

              Also is calling them “ghost guns” supposed to make them scarier? Really? “Unregistered firearms” isn’t spooky enough?