Disclaimer: This is not meant to be a bait or any kind of bad-faith devaluing or stereotyping. This is only based on my experience, hearing similar stories from others and wanting to understand. I’m aware that there are good and bad people everywhere.
So I’m European and starting on a good note I always admired America for many things like the freedom, diversity and cool movies.
But after more experience with meeting real Americans I noticed this personality type that I and I think many other non-Americans would describe as arrogant.
Like I stated before I’m not saying every American is like that and I know there are many very nice Americans. But I often saw that some Americans seem to only be nice on the surface (if at all) but actually seem to have this attitude of “I don’t give a f about you”. And I know that America is a very individualistic culture that focuses on the self and the belief that everyone can achieve anything on their own.
But I still think having a sense of empathy and sensitivity towards others is a very important core human quality that everyone should have. And from personal experience and also from a very prevalent notion of others both in every day life and when looking it up online it’s clear that many non-Americans perceive many Americans to cross a line there.
For example there’s a prevalent observation of Americans visiting other countries and acting like they own the place by being very loud, demanding and not accepting if things aren’t the same way as they are in America.
We know that Americans have very big issues with divisiveness and social injustice and it seams like there’s also this sort of “ghetto” personality including trash-talking, lots of vulgar slang and slurs and bragging.
And a general perception of money playing a big role as if many Americans judge someone’s worth by money and this attitude of not feeling like needing to help someone. I think there’s this famous description of a person lying in the middle of the ground in a public city and people just walk around the person not feeling the need to help.
It almost feels like they’re very entitled and put their ego up way higher than it actually is and lacking the quality of making themselves smaller/putting themselves second to treat others with more dignity.
We’re arrogant. Hope that helps
Oh my god I laughed and laughed and laughed 🤣 I needed this tonight. You poor folks, I hope you figure it out soon, it ain’t pretty to watch!
We’re trained like dogs by corporations to fight each other instead of them.
Noam Chomsky talked a lot about how political conversations in the US transformed into battles, as Republicans/Conservatives have adopted a policy of never working with Democrats to fix problems.
I’m curious, have your interactions with Americans been with those that have traveled to Europe? The reason I ask is because I was able to visit years ago and wondered if maybe European’s view of Americans is skewed because they mostly see those of us that come from well off backgrounds (upper income). I met young Americans that had been there multiple times because their parents paid their way while they were on summer break from school. In contrast, I was the exact opposite. You’re not likely to see many low income folks visiting so you may have a skewed viewpoint.
All this shit could be said of every other country in the world. Americans don’t have the market cornered on being a prick.
I watched a Chinese tour group practically destroy a museum exhibit. Germans don’t tip. Some Brits still carry a colonial attitude when it comes to people of color. We had to ban an Indian family from this restaurant I worked at because they thought they could bring the caste system with them on their vacation. In my early twenties, I almost got into fist fight with a Russian guy who didn’t understand why I couldn’t break his $20 with the money in my till.
Go out into the world and actually interact with people instead of painting broad stereotypical strokes on the Internet. You’ll see the capacity for being an asshole isn’t relegated to one nationality or ethnicity.
theres some
confirmationselection bias in that most americans will never have the ability to travel abroad. so the group youre interfacing with are the more entitled, wealthier class which is also a much smaller contingent of americans.@knowledge_seeker@lemmy.world this comment is mostly it. Live in America for a bit and you’ll see there are people that way and there aren’t. And guess what, every other country, too. Americans also have speech patterns that push more air, which sounds loud and projecting to many other nationalities. (Am American)
Not to be contrarian, because I think you’re probably right, but for example if you send my poor southern family to another country and expect better results/impressions on the populace, your gonna be in for some disappointment.
not to be that guy, but that’s selection bias
oops, thanks!
You’re welcome
US citizen here, sounds like you have already figured it out:
And I know that America is a very individualistic culture that focuses on the self and the belief that everyone can achieve anything on their own.
This goes deep into the heart of the matter. A good portion of the population has been propagandized for literally decades that every man is an island and reliance on others is “pussy shit.” There is no conception of society. No one wants to fix society, they all want to become rich so the rules of society just stop applying to them.
Temporarily embarrassed
millionairesbillionaires and all that.For those of us with empathy and understanding of how economics and international relations actually function, let me tell you, it is a nightmare on our mental health. It has been that way long before Trump, too, I remember how viciously we wasted the world’s outpouring of compassion after 9/11. In response to that compassion we went and swung around our big military dick in the middle east and wrecked millions upon millions of lives. It is a daily endless gaslighting by society that caring about people makes us weak. We often are literally denied opportunities to thrive because we aren’t following the right “script.” We will be passed over for jobs in favor of nepotism and social connections.
Like literally the entire fraternity/sorority culture in the US is and always was for forging early business connections so you can be a useless fucking loser but still rise to the top.
That culture has lead to the worst, dumbest, and least competent running the entire fucking country.
A lot of days it really feels like it would just be easier to let this system fucking kill me and let it win just to get it over with.
Somehow, though, people like me continue living out of spite for what America is and what it represents.
It’s seems like USA’s culture rewards individual success above all else, hence successful people behaving like main protagonists, or even as if others were NPCs.
To be fair, other comments that speak about selection bias are also spot on: not all people there do commercial tourism, even domestically. The ones that do are successful enough to have that disposable income.
I have a soft center and part of me wants things to slow down and be more inclusive and understanding and to have time for more connection… and generally shift our culture away from survival of the fittest.
That didnt get me anywhere and i was poor as shit and was taken advantage of by employers and the system constantly.
Now i say fuck everyone else im getting mine and relish getting ahead. Its a learned behavior that i want to shed when i have financial independence. It is what it is.
Others have already pointed out that we’re indoctrinated into the myths of American exceptionalism and rugged individualism from a young age. I very much agree, but those myths are only part of it.
That indoctrination, combined with our lack of safety nets, shows up as a hypercompetitive attitude. (“It’s a dog-eat-dog world out there.”) We feel pressured to be the very best so we might earn the privilege of feeling secure and stable. Trash-talking and bragging are hamfisted attempts to portray high status.
If you look at our social injustice issues through that lens, the injustice makes a certain kind of disgusting, antisocial sense. One who’s internalized the hypercompetitiveness will look at someone lying in the middle of the ground in a public city and think: they just aren’t trying hard enough, they just couldn’t compete. We look to others’ misfortunes for reassurance that we’re good enough, that we’re at the front of the pack. To make oneself smaller, to put oneself second, becomes unthinkable. (“Second place is first loser.”)
But after more experience with meeting real Americans I noticed this personality type that I and I think many other non-Americans would describe as arrogant.
Where did you meet them?
Tourists are usually only rich people who can afford traveling around the world.
Regardless, Nationalism is an idea almost universally taught in every country. I was born in People’s Republic of China and National Anthems, Flag Raising Ceremonies are a common thing. Chinese movies were all WW2 war movies portraying the CCP in a posiyive light. Similar to Americans with the Pledge of Allegience, National Anthem, and American movies also portraying the US in a positive light.
People grow up with nationalism, and of course feel very arrogant because they are part of a powerful nation, so they feel superior. And the US military bases all around the world probably make them feel like they own the world, especially if the Americans you were talking to were rich tourists.
America is a very individualistic culture that focuses on the self and the belief that everyone can achieve anything on their own.
Yes this is a thing I’ve noticed when I immigrated to the US. Apparantly parents in the US like to kick out their kids at 18, or sometimes at 16, and kids really want to run away from parents for some reason, even though its a very bad form a financial standpoint. In many Asian cultures, you aren’t expected to move out until marriage.
People in western cultures seems very anti-mask, where as in Asian countries (even the Democratic ones), they are much more willing to wear a mask.
But I still think having a sense of empathy and sensitivity towards others is a very important core human quality that everyone should have.
Empathy isn’t just lacking in Americans, but all around the world. But of course, western individualism is only making that aspect worse.
Tourists are usually only rich people who can afford traveling around the world.
That’s an excellent point. A lot of people are getting their impression of Americans from those of us who are likely conservatives, and therefore the least likely to show any humility or empathy.
Because the American culture has indocrinated Americans to put themselves first. Whoever has “me first” hard-coded in their personality tends to view everybody else as inferior, and tends to have an unwavering confidence in their own greatness.
The US suffers deeply from cultural narcissism where a significant number of people believe that their needs are more important than the needs of others.
American culture, partly because of bullshit mythos and partly because of religious like devotion to oligarchic capitalism, selects for low-empathy sociopaths and individual atomization/isolation. My favorite low end example is to observe my fellow citizens driving when I go to the suburbs: you are in their personal story, and you are in their way. City living doesn’t fix all that, but having to live in close proximity to neighbors and get used to compromise helps push a slightly more communal vibe.
But basically the entire culture is built around a get-yours-first mentality? And more recently an influencer-inflected sort of hyper-real understanding of one’s value and potential. We’re like a national exemplar for the dunning-Kruger effect, or like kids who cheat at online video games swaggering around proud of their “achievements”.
Seems like we’re in the finding out phase after fucking around though.
I’m a Canadian who has lived and worked in the US, so I’ve got some familiarity with it.
There is a pervading sense of exceptionalism buried deep in the American zeitgeist. It runs so deep that most people don’t even notice it - even on the outer edges.
Case in point: My closest friends down there were staunch leftists. In a land of gun owners and meat lovers, they were vegetarians and pacifists who marched in protests against the government. Most of the time they were quiet, charming, soft-spoken, but firm in their beliefs. Pretty much the polar opposite of the “loudmouth American tourist abroad” stereotype.
And yet if you asked them if the US was the greatest country on earth, they’d say “well yeah, which is why we have to fight for it.” An admirable sentiment, but the “well yeah” speaks volumes for how the country sees itself.
The protest singers who lived through McCarthy are the same. Woody Guthrie and his son Arlo would probably say that for all of its flaws and horror, the US is still the best nation we’ve got so far.
When you know deep in your soul that you’re the best, it’s hard not to let some subconscious arrogance show through.
I’d like to add some nuance to your observation.
We Americans, most of us anyway, went to public school. And in our history classes, we teach what has been called the “Standard American History Myth” by YouTube channel Knowing Better in their video on American Neo-slavery.
In short, America is founded on many ideals (freedom, liberty, etc), and we generally write our histories as if we have always believed in and acted according to those beliefs (with slavery being a “failure to live up to those ideals”). That’s the simple history we teach our kids here, it’s what we grow up believing, and the only people who ever really learn anything different had nontraditional learning opportunities (e.g. local experts in black history, American Indian history, etc), studied history at a university, or nowadays maybe learned from social media (like the above Knowing Better channel).
Manifest Destiny is a big example. We teach that America believed in their divinely inspired right to the American continent, from sea to shining sea. We do mention the Trail of Tears, but it’s taught as a brute fact at best, and as punishment for standing against America at worst. There’s no emotional processing that we did a bad thing and that we shouldn’t do that thing anymore. Most Americans would do it all again given the opportunity.
And that’s the big thing. We just… simply don’t have any sort of national level conscience. If we did something bad to someone, no we didn’t, and if we did, they deserved it.
I only really came to grips with America’s dark side in grad school by reading, listening, and watching interviews with black people who protested Jim Crowe and Asian Americans who told their experiences living in concentration camps (euphemistically “internment camps”) during WW2.
That, I think, is the biggest problem in the American psyche. Not only have we “never done anything wrong, really” but we’re also pumped up on religious symbolism (we’re a beacon on a hill, a light into the world, etc).
“Divinely inspired” crybully, basically. There’s a reason Trump resonates so strongly here. He’s the embodiment of “I am the best, I never did anything wrong, and fuck you for trying to insinuate otherwise, you ungrateful traitor.”
buried deep in the American zeitgeist
I think you mean American psyche. Zeitgeist means the spirit of the times. It usually refers to the present way of thinking or the way things were at one time.
The American psyche is much more of a timeless thing, stretching all the way back to the attitudes and beliefs of the founding fathers when they drafted the Declaration of Independence. Norman Rockwell’s paintings, Robert Frost’s poems, John Steinbeck’s books, the games of baseball and (gridiron) football. These are just some of the cultural artifacts said to be part of the American psyche.
I actually has psyche written down, and changed it.
It’s not exactly the normal use of zeitgeist and maybe volksgeist would be a better term (except tthat we don’t use it in English), but I feel that this is a relatively new aspect to Americanism, starting in WWII. It’s still more of a growth on their psyche than a fundamental part of it.
It also has some parsllels with British exceptionalism up to the endnof the 19th century
Where in Europe are you from? Cause Im from Europe and i feel like this is just a human trait. To answer your question though, america is basically the center of the world for a lot of people, and they truly do think america is better than the rest of the world. That’s probably why.
I’m sure if you polled the average American they would not agree that “America is better than the rest of the world “. Maybe 20-30 years ago that might have been true.
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Liking it and thinking it’s the best in the world are different. I like our national parks, but USA is far from the best.
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Any of them really. Shenandoah is near me and it’s a beautiful place to go especially during the summer. I like going up to PA during the winter I found a leanto that you can block off the wind and snow pretty well and it’s fun to camp though winter. Don’t remember the name of the park though. Zion national Park is amazing but I haven’t been there since 2016.
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Nah, we have a great park system. One the highest rated services globally, rated internally and by visitors.
Maybe because it’s nature and not humans you deal with.
Most Americans don’t have passports and only know about outside USA from TV and news. And if they’re watching fox, they hate themselves as much as they hate outside USA. So yeah, were uncultured swine in that regard.
I do not feel USA is the best, haven’t in a long time, in fact lately we’re sliding downhill so fast, literally racing to the bottom of everything, education, empathy, human rights, healthcare, basic reading skills, astronomical prices, burnout… You name it, we’ve fucked it up.
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Yeah but America thinks theit shit doesn’t stink and it’s getting really annoying.
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I have observed a huuuge difference in this regard between the Usamericans that I have met in real life (when they have moved to Europe) and the ones that I have met online because they still live there.
So, one part of the arrogance comes when they have never seen the world, but talk about it as if they knew it.
I wouldn’t say arrogant, but I’ve worked with a lot of Americans, and there’s something most of them have in common. I can’t quite put my finger on what, but it’s in the vicinity or arrogance. I simply don’t have the necessary English vocabulary to explain it properly.
In short, I’ve found that most of them likes to swing their dick around and pull rank, even if someone else clearly has a better approach/solution/suggestion. This is far from unique to americans, but it seems more prevalent compared to the other nationalities I’ve worked with.
They have a tendency to be cocky, headstrong, and ignorant of the greater world and people around them.
I have lost count of the amount of Americans I have met and spoken to that think them and their country are the centre of the universe. And I don’t mean that in a mocking or mean way - many of them were amazingly nice people but they legitimately did not know any better.
I think a lot of ignorance of other countries and people are tied into how big the US is. it’s basically as if all of Europe was one country, had a shared, baseline culture, and everyone spoke the same language.
Over in Europe, you can travel through multiple countries, each with their own shared history, language, and culture, each distinct from another - all in the same day.
More perspective on how big it is: You can drive 12 hours and not make it out of California. And our rail system is pitiful, meaning many people don’t travel anywhere they can’t easily drive or affordably fly.
Confidence?
Maybe, but not necessarily in a good way. Unfounded, to the point of cocky, I think.
More than once have I had to say something along the lines of “Yeah, we know, you’re not the first to suggest this. There’s a reason why we don’t do that.”
…and, again, not exclusive to Americans. But definitely more common.
“The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.”