• Taokan@sh.itjust.works
    123·
    6 days ago

    To be fair, showing no historical correlation and just assuming the problem or separation started this year because it’s specifically indexed to the start of the year, is garbage math. Like, you got the correct answer, but you did the problem completely wrong.

  • MordercaSkurwysyn@lemm.eeEnglish
    13·
    7 days ago

    Is there any chance for a future where the economy that matters, real people’s lives, production of useful goods and services, becomes decoupled from imaginary evaluations of billionaire’s gambling results? It really rustles my jimmies when I hear that a result of some banksters bet can get working families evicted and jobs dissapear.

  • Wilco@lemm.eeEnglish
    5·
    7 days ago

    What ever could the problem be? Tariffs! No tariffs. Tariffs! No tariffs … well some, maybe. Tariffs! Delayed tariffs … delayed tariffs again.

    • GaMEChld@lemmy.world
      3·
      7 days ago

      That guy pours over countless documents and stats to make his moves. He probably knows what he’s doing more than most when it comes to predicting market turns.

      I mean I feel like a recession is inevitable, but I’m just some random guy.

      • KelvarIW@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        3·
        7 days ago

        It absolutely is. I’ve sensed it coming for years now. Gen Y and Gen Z have been struggling under student loan debt. Car loans are getting years longer. People were micro-financing weddings and vacations. Now services like “Klarna” and Afterpay are just repackaged credit card debt.

        The majority of people in America can not survive. College degrees aren’t enough to find a job, and raises/bonuses are non-existent. Most people are working for minimum wage, and that minimum wage is stagnant. If you had real estate or stocks, the boom in the housing and financial sector could offset this pressure, but with the majority of property getting swept up by large hedge funds, there’s no room for average Americans to get their foot in the door with a mortgage.

        So what do people do? They stop buying. It’s the same market-stagnation effect that deflation has, only with all the micro-economic stress that inflation creates. It happened before in 1929. It’s happening again. Because America allowed itself to slip back into the capitalist trends that created the previous Gilded Age.

  • GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world
    21·
    6 days ago

    You know if you just use a sharpie to draw the line going up instead of down there isn’t a problem anymore.

  • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
    1·
    7 days ago

    Oh no, better double down on the cuntishness, fire all the workers and give ourselves an enormous bonus!

    • KingJalopy @lemm.ee
      251·
      7 days ago

      Yo dawg, I heard you like tarriffs…

      Edit - Sorry… I’m usually better than that

      • joenforcer@midwest.social
        101·
        8 days ago

        Side note, why do people seem to struggle so much with the spelling of the word “tariff”? We’ve seen it so many times yet so many people get it wrong.

        • III@lemmy.worldEnglish
          46·
          8 days ago

          Not really a side note, this is just the tip of the “American stupidity and overconfidence that got us here” iceberg.

  • JiveTurkey@lemmy.world
    1181·
    8 days ago

    Tbh Wall Street can fuckin off. They helped create this mess. If this ship is going down, let’s make sure none of the assholes find a seat on a life boat.

    • jaybone@lemmy.world
      1011·
      8 days ago

      All of everyone’s retirement accounts are invested in the market. So it’s not just those assholes who get fucked by this.

      • redfellow@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        1·
        6 days ago

        In the USA, not everywhere, luckily. It’s as if the repercussions will hit you guys harder than the ones Trumpet is trying to blow at.

      • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
        13·
        8 days ago

        Maybe it will force Americans to do something against that? If no one has any retirement, there’s bound to be a lot of public outcry. There’s nothing to lose if you have nothing.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
        512·
        8 days ago

        All of everyone’s retirement accounts are invested in the market.

        Americans not willing to recognize that Social Security exists is such a fucking capitalist vibe

        • WraithGear@lemmy.worldEnglish
          14·
          8 days ago

          Social security is not enough to live off of. Is projected to be unobtainable for future generations who are paying into it, and is currently on the chopping block

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
            66·
            8 days ago

            Social security is not enough to live off of.

            Nevertheless, it is 40% of retirement income. And none of it comes from the stock market.

            projected to be unobtainable for future generations

            Projected by advocacy groups trying to abolish social security.

            • WraithGear@lemmy.worldEnglish
              82·
              8 days ago

              You are being untruthful and dismissive: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/tr/2024/tr2024.pdf Page 9 is the jist.

              They are going to have to change something either raise the retirement age or lower the payments both which make it more unobtainable then it already is. And that 40% is based what people make… in a time of rising inflation and stagnant wages…

              The fact that social security is not tied to the market is super irrelevant, when the argument was that the 401k is in danger, when social security already is not enough to live on. so it’s important that people have a successful 401k to supplement it.

              • Bronzebeard@lemm.eeEnglish
                7·
                8 days ago

                The real solution is making the average wage go up. Significantly. Which puts more money into the program overall.

                With so much money having been shifted away from the average worker and Into the pockets of people who hit the FICA cap in their first paycheck of the year, over the last few decades, it was bound to have issues.

              • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
                42·
                8 days ago

                They are going to have to change something either raise the retirement age or lower the payments

                Or just pay directly out of the general fund, which they can do with a simple vote in Congress and which they already do for Medicare/caid.

                The fact that social security is not tied to the market is super irrelevant

                It is the primary argument both for and against the program. Investors kick and scream about the benefits of compound interest, right up until a big market nosedive and bankruptcy spree. Meanwhile, it’s the benchmark for guaranteed basic income that progressives love to reference.

                Decoupling income from economic growth isn’t irrelevant. It’s the program’s entire raison d’etre.

                • WraithGear@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  21·
                  8 days ago

                  You would have the tax payers pay even more of the burden now, with out the benefit of even having it contribute to their social security… to pay the gap in social security, damning the tax payers twice. That’s not a permanent solution on top of that! I’m not saying social security should be attached to the market. I mean we are talking about the market fall after all! I am saying that being flippant that everyone Just needs to remember they have social security is dismissive and not relevant.

    • takeda@lemm.eeEnglish
      22·
      8 days ago

      Oh you can be sure Congress will be working overtime to pass a bill with relief to those big businesses that cannot fail.

  • Asafum@feddit.nl
    90·
    8 days ago

    What’s interesting to me is that the “shape” of the line still matches the global line pretty well so there are some “fundamental” aspects that still affect markets, but overall we’re in a nosedive for “some reason.”

  • protist@mander.xyzEnglish
    63·
    8 days ago

    Here in the US, I transfered most of my 403(b) investments into European, Asian, and “emerging market” funds, so I’m happy to be doing my part.

      • protist@mander.xyzEnglish
        33·
        8 days ago

        If you have a 401(k) or 403(b) through your employer, your employer should be partnered with an investment firm to manage it (e.g. T Rowe Price, Prudential, or Transamerica). You need to figure out which company you’ve got and log in to your account. Ask your HR dept if you can’t figure it out.

        That firm will automatically choose where to invest your money unless you log in to your account on their website and tell them where you want it invested.

        Most investment firms will offer a limited selection of mutual funds with a variety of objectives. They usually link to each prospectus right there on the site, and the prospectus often has a pie chart telling you where a fund’s investments are located (US, Europe, Asia, etc). It will also list their performance over time, expense ratios, and other useful info, like whether they invest in large vs small cap businesses and their largest individual holdings.

        You want to change both where your current investments are allocated and where your future contributions will be allocated.

        You also want to try to find funds with low expense ratios (I try to stay below 0.10% unless it’s a fund I really like and am willing to make an exception for). Anything titled “index fund” is likely to be low. Your money is almost guaranteed to be automatically invested in funds with high expense ratios, cutting into your long-term growth, because the investment firm makes big bucks giving your money to people who aren’t wise with it.

        If you want to get serious, you can even set up a personal choice account where you can totally independently decide where to invest your money, even in individual stocks. This comes with significant risk and is not a great idea for laypeople like you or I.

    • SupahRevs@lemmy.world
      7·
      7 days ago

      I did the same with my IRA. I was in VOO but moved to VGK and some short term bonds. So far I’ve saved myself a good amount of money.

    • sloppychops@lemmy.caEnglish
      3·
      7 days ago

      Same, babe. Sold all my iShares and Vanguard ETFs and moved into BMO emerging markets, Euro, and Canadian funds.

      I still need to look into my employer group pension account. I don’t know how much control I actually have over that.

  • blady_blah@lemmy.world
    56·
    7 days ago

    Okay, here’s my conspiracy theory…

    Now let’s say you’re Trump and the supreme Court has said it’s just about impossible to convict somebody of corruption in the US. You see that you’re going to be elected president and your goal is to figure out how to make a crap ton of money off being present. Now you can do the boring old s make dignitaries stay at your hotel thing or have foreign governments. Give Jared kushner a bunch of money… But that’s all pocket change. If you’re president, you can crash the economy. If you know a bunch of Rich Russian oligarchs who can short the market and you can tell them exactly when the market will crash then they can make billions… And you can get your cut too.

    This is why Trump doesn’t really give a shit why the tariffs are in place. That’s why he makes up bullshit answers when asked why the tariffs are implemented. He doesn’t care. … But he really really really wants to yank the market around. First he says tariffs happening, then he says they’re not, then they’re happening again. Every time the market goes up and down he can make a shit ton of money if he can accurately predict when it goes up or down.

    I can’t get this idea out of my head. It makes more sense than anything else I can come up with. There’s so much money to be made if you have the power to yank around the u.s. economy and enough narcissism to not give a shit about the people hurt in the process.

    • 10001110101@lemm.eeEnglish
      3·
      7 days ago

      Yeah, I think it’s either this, or the tariffs are extortion (announce tariffs, then solicit bribes from businesses and politicians). Could be both as well.

    • SaffronDovovan@lemmy.caEnglish
      2·
      7 days ago

      Exactly what I have been thinking. I should have scrolled down and read your comment before I made mine

    • isar@lemm.eeEnglish
      131·
      7 days ago

      What I’m wondering when reading such theories is: does money matter all that much to these people? Like when you’re 80+ years old and a billionaire I don’t see what the end game there is, unless it’s just an uncle Scrooge attitude but I still find it a bit hard to believe. I think that in order to become a billionaire you need to be seriously driven by something more than 0s - maybe power, influence or attention.

      • Slartibartfast@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        221·
        7 days ago

        You’ve got to step back a little to understand.

        The key thing is that it is not possible (excluding inheritance) to become a billionaire without being a scheming psychopathic cut-throat selfish person and having a determined drive to have power over others.

        The second key is it’s not possible to keep your billions without being a psychopath. This because you could never possibly spend that money in your lifetime and the only way to have accumulated it is through exploitation of labour.

        So it’s a thing you don’t need that you got via abusing others. They want power and they don’t care how they get it. They have no plan beyond that. Personally I think it’s mental health issues and the fact that we allow this in our flawed system.

        • shneancy@lemmy.world
          8·
          7 days ago

          it’s not just allowed it’s encouraged, in fact i’d go as far as to say it’s the only way to “win” in this system

        • MooseyMoose@lemmy.worldEnglish
          7·
          7 days ago

          It’s not wealth hoarding, it’s wealth OBSTRUCTION as a means to control everyone. It’s pathological fo sho.

      • blady_blah@lemmy.world
        8·
        7 days ago

        Logically you would think the answer should be that money shouldn’t matter much, but it always seems to. It’s still a way of keeping score and a proxy for power. They’ve always longed for more money/power and as they get older and their brain slows down, they don’t suddenly change. What old billionaire have you seen says “you know what? I’m going to give everyone raises! I don’t need more money! We should all be happy together!” (Almost) never happens. They want more and more and more… and then they die.

    • beejboytyson@lemmy.world
      3·
      7 days ago

      That was my idea. These jarring and quickly implemented money drainers only really help ppl outside the market.