Some are forced to use windows due to workplace requirements or software only running on windows. I run linux everywhere I can, but don’t always have the choice.
Try producing decent music on Linux: run into issues with DAWs and plugins.
try 3d anything more advanced on Linux: any fluid or gas simulation gets annoying real quick (real flow, Houdini, vray, octane)
try layouting / handout design on linux: yeah let’s hate on Adobe (and I do think they deserve it) but let’s also realize most of the industry runs on their tools and Linux makes it complicated
Either you sacrifice money and freedom, or you sacrifice time and sanity. And I’m sorry, if I wanna do multiple of those things there’s no way around mac or windows. I wish it was different, but it isn’t and we gotta be realistic here.
And yes I see y’all shouting that there’s a way for all of those things through workarounds but: for every one of those that works for me, there just as many that don’t work, than just as many that restrict me in different ways, just as many that require documentation that I have to pull out of my ass cause it’s not online, and just as many that make me look for the toenail of a harpy and sauron’s tears to work.
Linux is not a direct alternative to windows, but it’s a lifestyle and a commitment and I’m not out here trying to make it my personality, I want software to work in less than a month of me deciding to install it.
I can see the down votes rolling in on this but I’m tired of ppl selling their lifestyle instead of their OS.
You make a good case. In my more simple case, I need efficient and smart looking PowerPoints and no foss alternative can beat office 2016. And dozens of programs are windows only. I’ve tinkered with wine/play on Linux before and it just doesn’t work out of the box for the majority of programs.
Yes and people sell Linux to my like “either it works out of the box or it takes like 1google search” and that’s polar opposite from my longer experience on Linux.
For work I had to set up an Ubuntu VM. Ubuntu is one of the most stable OS variants. But: it literally started throwing system application errors after 2h from a fresh install. We thought it was a one time thing or that we did something wrong so we tried again. The OS disk image was official and our VM Software was Virtual box. Both are supposed to be stable. And still, the OS started crying 2h in every time.
Or another time where I had to find scanner drivers and I lost it. 5h of searching and tinkering, I had to rewrite scripts I found which didn’t work, had to add package manager repositories to my system, and try to look for 15y+ old forum posts which get very technical but also not really in depth. For a fucking scanner.
And then that time aI wanted to install some software (I think maybe Skype) from the official Ubuntu store. But it just wouldn’t work. Everyone else apparently had no issues online. Everyone except for me. Tried to install it through downloading an archive and when that didn’t work I installed it through the terminal apt-get. It still wouldn’t work iirc.
Or that time I had an Ubuntu VM for like half a year and applications started to hang and the system started getting random issues.
Or that time Linux system just threw errors on every system upgrade (same happened to updates).
This is a reoccurring thing and this toxic Linux positivity will only make more people mad when things are not as promised and they realize they are fucked.
My most recent example with EndeavorOS was trying out KDE which I thought looked really smart on the desktop. Then it started glitching. Arch tends to be bleeding edge so that makes sense. But it meant I had to make a new choice of distribution or DE.
But Debian based Ubuntu? On Virtualbox? That seems a bit off. Maybe LTS would provide the stability you need.
I guess because development is decentralised, that you end up with developers working on different packages and when they update one it has a ripple effect on other packages.
The or part in that statement is really what kills you, as you sort of imply. You spend five hours almost getting your scanner to work, some times, unreliably.
That’s a worse outcome than the scanner refusing to work entirely in many cases.
Yes. I didn’t list blender because blender is kind of a unique case. An open source tool that basically slowly became industry standard? That’s a 1 in a million from what I’ve seen. But: as soon as you get professional, like I said, all the plugins and additional software will cause headaches, provided it works at all. The tools I listed there afaik do not have native support / are very unstable on Linux, although I haven’t confirmed it.
But yeah I get your point, and it is quite the accomplishment to the blender devs that they made it this far, tho it is not the rule.
a solid email client: Thunderbird can’t search all my email for even things that are in the subject line
a calendar application with support for CalDAV and Exchange
an office suite matching the Microsoft or even Apple offerings of 2004
reasonable cloud sync
a decent vector graphics tool a lá Affinity Designer, a cheap tool developed by a small indie company
These are regular requirements for office work that I’ve had trouble with.
Oh and I also routinely have trouble turning off my computer, it just freezes at a black screen. This is a stationary computer with nothing weird in it.
As a long time Windows user (~30 years), it comes down to “can I fix this if something goes wrong?”. This applies even more so when I’m talking about a computer that my wife might be using.
99.9% of the time, the answer is “yes” when it comes to windows.
Every time I’ve tried Linux, some experience breaking issue comes up within hours/days of starting it up, and I simply don’t have time to troubleshoot it.
No matter how “stable” and “easy” someone claims Linux to be, I’ve never had a stable or easy experience in the last 20 years of trying to use Linux. I hate that fact, but that is a fact for me.
I assume you’ve never used Linux long enough to get a grip. You would get there if you use it long enough.
However, operating systems are just tools. Use which one is easy for you. If you have no spare time to learn a new OS, just use what you know. Though Microsoft’s latest shenanigans really force some people to switch to other OSes.
I’d love to switch to linux but it just doesn’t make sense for me.
I’m an embedded systems developer and my proprietary toolchain is windows only. Additionally I use several Adobe product routinely (illustrator, photoshop, premier).
I believe illustrator and premiere do as well. There’s also always running Windows in a VM. There are ways to have the Windows applications show within the Linux DE. It just might be worth experimenting with a dual boot if it’s something you want.
I can tell you for a fact, in 1999, we were running Windows3.11 and MSDOS 5.x on a brand-new Pentium II ? or something like that, because the DSP-board and daughter-card system didn’t like Win2k. We were all on the network. Everyone ran Win2k Pro while loading the test codes via network / SMB/CIFs share to that machine.
Same could be done using Linux on all those systems except for the test rig.
NO YOU DO NOT have to use Windows on your desktop just for your toolchain. Put that shit on a separate test-rig and isolate it.
Best Practices and Good Standard procedures makes it possible to use Linux on the Desktop.
It is a matter of ability and talent to do things properly using the best tools at any given time.
Unfortunately, Linux isn’t quite there yet for casual users. I tried it every year, and there was always something that was annoying enough that I switched back to Windows with O&O ShutUp10. This is the first year that I’ve been happy enough with my install that I’ve started using it as my daily OS. But even this year, I had 2 really annoying issues that I had to spend time searching to fix.
After putting my computer to sleep, it would immediately wake back up. Eventually found out it was my Logitech wireless dongle that was causing the issue. I had to create a script that disabled USB ports during sleep and a systemd service to make sure it activated on every boot.
After waking from sleep, my screen was black with only my cursor visible. Running sudo systemctl restart display-manager sometimes worked, but that wasn’t a solution. After searching the web some more, I found an arch wiki explaining that it was an issue with my Nvidia GPU. So then I had to edit a modprobe file and finally I was happy with my install.
I’m super happy that I can finally use Linux full-time, but the fact I had to mess around in terminal to fix the issues associated with my hardware means most casual users will just go straight back to Windows. I’ve seen a lot of Linux users say, “just don’t use Nvidia”, but buying a new GPU isn’t a solution for most people. My hardware isn’t even that weird: AMD 5800x3d, x570 chipset, Nvidia GPU. Linux is getting there, it’s closer than it’s ever been. But it’s not there yet.
After putting my computer to sleep, it would immediately wake back up. Eventually found out it was my Logitech wireless dongle that was causing the issue. I had to create a script that disabled USB ports during sleep and a systemd service to make sure it activated on every boot.
Thanks for this. I’m going to look into it. This happens on my computer, but it’s been happening for years, which includes a long time on Windows. I had pretty much given up on it because I’ve tried unplugging just about everything and it still happens. It might be something else for me.
For the Nvidia issues, that hopefully shouldn’t be an issue soon after the open source drivers. The few mostly solvable issues with Linux are quickly dissolving.
but the fact I had to mess around in terminal to fix the issues associated with my hardware means most casual users will just go straight back to Windows.
It’s easier when all they do is browse the web, and you can just install linux for them (after they have agreed of course) with the necessary fixes applied by you. They won’t want to go back, because it works fine. Especially when they asked your for maintenance and speeding up the machine, agreed to getting an SSD, and keeping windows on the HDD.
My 75 year old father have been running linux for 20 years now. All in all, i know about 7 super casual users that are running linux only, without any real issues.
Its definitely there for the casual users. Its just not really there for the Windows "power"users lol
It still depends on the hardware you have. If you have hardware that’s fully supported by the kernel version your distro is running, then it’s easy. But as soon as you add a piece of hardware that isn’t, there’s a good chance you need to spend a lot of time searching how to fix it. Buying a new mouse and all of a sudden not having sleep work is not a power user problem IMO.
If you stumble open a problem like that, Windows, even macos, are also that diddly. Even more so, because they are designed to hide the internals from the user. I had to use my old MacBook for something. While sleeping, it wakes up, connects to my bluetooth headphone, I hear “device connected”, then disconnects 10 seconds later, “device disconnected”, and repeats 20 seconds later. Searched, “how to disable Bluetooth while sleeping”.Turns out there is no official way and the answer is competing with Linux shenanigans. Just look at this!
Also it launches Music app whenever I connect my bluetooth headphones. And guess what, it is impossible to disable that behavior. I had to install an app called NoTunes to stop that.
People just accept the quirks of windows and macos. when something similar happens on Linux it proves Linux is unusable by “normal people”. But you are also right. Linux is not there yet. I did need to use my old MacBook because something I need to do was impossible on Linux.
windows users will do anything but switch to linux
Some are forced to use windows due to workplace requirements or software only running on windows. I run linux everywhere I can, but don’t always have the choice.
Yeah wtf
Either you sacrifice money and freedom, or you sacrifice time and sanity. And I’m sorry, if I wanna do multiple of those things there’s no way around mac or windows. I wish it was different, but it isn’t and we gotta be realistic here.
And yes I see y’all shouting that there’s a way for all of those things through workarounds but: for every one of those that works for me, there just as many that don’t work, than just as many that restrict me in different ways, just as many that require documentation that I have to pull out of my ass cause it’s not online, and just as many that make me look for the toenail of a harpy and sauron’s tears to work.
Linux is not a direct alternative to windows, but it’s a lifestyle and a commitment and I’m not out here trying to make it my personality, I want software to work in less than a month of me deciding to install it.
I can see the down votes rolling in on this but I’m tired of ppl selling their lifestyle instead of their OS.
You make a good case. In my more simple case, I need efficient and smart looking PowerPoints and no foss alternative can beat office 2016. And dozens of programs are windows only. I’ve tinkered with wine/play on Linux before and it just doesn’t work out of the box for the majority of programs.
Yes and people sell Linux to my like “either it works out of the box or it takes like 1google search” and that’s polar opposite from my longer experience on Linux.
For work I had to set up an Ubuntu VM. Ubuntu is one of the most stable OS variants. But: it literally started throwing system application errors after 2h from a fresh install. We thought it was a one time thing or that we did something wrong so we tried again. The OS disk image was official and our VM Software was Virtual box. Both are supposed to be stable. And still, the OS started crying 2h in every time.
Or another time where I had to find scanner drivers and I lost it. 5h of searching and tinkering, I had to rewrite scripts I found which didn’t work, had to add package manager repositories to my system, and try to look for 15y+ old forum posts which get very technical but also not really in depth. For a fucking scanner.
And then that time aI wanted to install some software (I think maybe Skype) from the official Ubuntu store. But it just wouldn’t work. Everyone else apparently had no issues online. Everyone except for me. Tried to install it through downloading an archive and when that didn’t work I installed it through the terminal apt-get. It still wouldn’t work iirc.
Or that time I had an Ubuntu VM for like half a year and applications started to hang and the system started getting random issues.
Or that time Linux system just threw errors on every system upgrade (same happened to updates).
This is a reoccurring thing and this toxic Linux positivity will only make more people mad when things are not as promised and they realize they are fucked.
My most recent example with EndeavorOS was trying out KDE which I thought looked really smart on the desktop. Then it started glitching. Arch tends to be bleeding edge so that makes sense. But it meant I had to make a new choice of distribution or DE.
But Debian based Ubuntu? On Virtualbox? That seems a bit off. Maybe LTS would provide the stability you need.
I guess because development is decentralised, that you end up with developers working on different packages and when they update one it has a ripple effect on other packages.
The or part in that statement is really what kills you, as you sort of imply. You spend five hours almost getting your scanner to work, some times, unreliably.
That’s a worse outcome than the scanner refusing to work entirely in many cases.
blender runs natively on linux…
do agree about music tho, it’s still a huge area that needs work
edit: blender running on my legion go, under steam gamemode on bazzite (it’s available on steam):
Yes. I didn’t list blender because blender is kind of a unique case. An open source tool that basically slowly became industry standard? That’s a 1 in a million from what I’ve seen. But: as soon as you get professional, like I said, all the plugins and additional software will cause headaches, provided it works at all. The tools I listed there afaik do not have native support / are very unstable on Linux, although I haven’t confirmed it.
But yeah I get your point, and it is quite the accomplishment to the blender devs that they made it this far, tho it is not the rule.
deleted by creator
It’s even worse than what you suggest.
Try finding:
These are regular requirements for office work that I’ve had trouble with.
Oh and I also routinely have trouble turning off my computer, it just freezes at a black screen. This is a stationary computer with nothing weird in it.
If you have workplace requirements I can imagine their security policy would let you run a app like this anyway?
As a long time Windows user (~30 years), it comes down to “can I fix this if something goes wrong?”. This applies even more so when I’m talking about a computer that my wife might be using.
99.9% of the time, the answer is “yes” when it comes to windows.
Every time I’ve tried Linux, some experience breaking issue comes up within hours/days of starting it up, and I simply don’t have time to troubleshoot it.
No matter how “stable” and “easy” someone claims Linux to be, I’ve never had a stable or easy experience in the last 20 years of trying to use Linux. I hate that fact, but that is a fact for me.
I assume you’ve never used Linux long enough to get a grip. You would get there if you use it long enough.
However, operating systems are just tools. Use which one is easy for you. If you have no spare time to learn a new OS, just use what you know. Though Microsoft’s latest shenanigans really force some people to switch to other OSes.
You can’t be serious. Being able to fix anything is the raison d’etre of open source.
For sure, but when every problem has 100 potential fixes, I no longer have time to experiment with trying to fix them.
Every fix in Linux seems like a hack that requires extensive terminal knowledge of small, random patches that seem to be strewn all over the internet.
Every fix in windows is usually self contained, and you just need to know where to look to access it.
In my teens, I would have loved the challenge to mess with Linux. But I have no desire to do that now.
I will get the itch from time to time to try a new liveUSB distro, and if Microsoft angers or annoys me enough, I might just stick with Linux.
yeah but at least we’re not told to run sfc /scannow followed by “format your pc” when that inevitably fails to find anything
I can honestly say that I haven’t had to reformat a windows PC since the early 2000s because of a problem that couldn’t easily be solved.
Even a BSOD is exceedingly rare.
Stability has been excellent, but the threat of advertisement creep is beginning to annoy me.
I’d love to switch to linux but it just doesn’t make sense for me.
I’m an embedded systems developer and my proprietary toolchain is windows only. Additionally I use several Adobe product routinely (illustrator, photoshop, premier).
Sucks.
Not trying to convince you, you have your reasons. However, Photoshop 2024 runs just fine under wine: https://forum.mattkc.com/viewtopic.php?t=336
I believe illustrator and premiere do as well. There’s also always running Windows in a VM. There are ways to have the Windows applications show within the Linux DE. It just might be worth experimenting with a dual boot if it’s something you want.
I can tell you for a fact, in 1999, we were running Windows3.11 and MSDOS 5.x on a brand-new Pentium II ? or something like that, because the DSP-board and daughter-card system didn’t like Win2k. We were all on the network. Everyone ran Win2k Pro while loading the test codes via network / SMB/CIFs share to that machine.
Same could be done using Linux on all those systems except for the test rig.
NO YOU DO NOT have to use Windows on your desktop just for your toolchain. Put that shit on a separate test-rig and isolate it.
Best Practices and Good Standard procedures makes it possible to use Linux on the Desktop.
It is a matter of ability and talent to do things properly using the best tools at any given time.
Unfortunately, Linux isn’t quite there yet for casual users. I tried it every year, and there was always something that was annoying enough that I switched back to Windows with O&O ShutUp10. This is the first year that I’ve been happy enough with my install that I’ve started using it as my daily OS. But even this year, I had 2 really annoying issues that I had to spend time searching to fix.
After putting my computer to sleep, it would immediately wake back up. Eventually found out it was my Logitech wireless dongle that was causing the issue. I had to create a script that disabled USB ports during sleep and a systemd service to make sure it activated on every boot.
After waking from sleep, my screen was black with only my cursor visible. Running
sudo systemctl restart display-managersometimes worked, but that wasn’t a solution. After searching the web some more, I found an arch wiki explaining that it was an issue with my Nvidia GPU. So then I had to edit a modprobe file and finally I was happy with my install.I’m super happy that I can finally use Linux full-time, but the fact I had to mess around in terminal to fix the issues associated with my hardware means most casual users will just go straight back to Windows. I’ve seen a lot of Linux users say, “just don’t use Nvidia”, but buying a new GPU isn’t a solution for most people. My hardware isn’t even that weird: AMD 5800x3d, x570 chipset, Nvidia GPU. Linux is getting there, it’s closer than it’s ever been. But it’s not there yet.
Thanks for this. I’m going to look into it. This happens on my computer, but it’s been happening for years, which includes a long time on Windows. I had pretty much given up on it because I’ve tried unplugging just about everything and it still happens. It might be something else for me.
For the Nvidia issues, that hopefully shouldn’t be an issue soon after the open source drivers. The few mostly solvable issues with Linux are quickly dissolving.
It’s easier when all they do is browse the web, and you can just install linux for them (after they have agreed of course) with the necessary fixes applied by you. They won’t want to go back, because it works fine. Especially when they asked your for maintenance and speeding up the machine, agreed to getting an SSD, and keeping windows on the HDD.
My 75 year old father have been running linux for 20 years now. All in all, i know about 7 super casual users that are running linux only, without any real issues.
Its definitely there for the casual users. Its just not really there for the Windows "power"users lol
It still depends on the hardware you have. If you have hardware that’s fully supported by the kernel version your distro is running, then it’s easy. But as soon as you add a piece of hardware that isn’t, there’s a good chance you need to spend a lot of time searching how to fix it. Buying a new mouse and all of a sudden not having sleep work is not a power user problem IMO.
@Untold1707 As opposed to the hardware requirements of windows, who force you to buy a new computer for every new windows version just because?
If you stumble open a problem like that, Windows, even macos, are also that diddly. Even more so, because they are designed to hide the internals from the user. I had to use my old MacBook for something. While sleeping, it wakes up, connects to my bluetooth headphone, I hear “device connected”, then disconnects 10 seconds later, “device disconnected”, and repeats 20 seconds later. Searched, “how to disable Bluetooth while sleeping”.Turns out there is no official way and the answer is competing with Linux shenanigans. Just look at this!
Also it launches Music app whenever I connect my bluetooth headphones. And guess what, it is impossible to disable that behavior. I had to install an app called NoTunes to stop that.
People just accept the quirks of windows and macos. when something similar happens on Linux it proves Linux is unusable by “normal people”. But you are also right. Linux is not there yet. I did need to use my old MacBook because something I need to do was impossible on Linux.
Black screen with cursor can be bypassed by pressing ctrl+alt+del, at least on my HP laptop with Mint and KDE Plasma 5.
Isn’t this just like a custom launcher for Android… But for Windows? Basically a custom UI layout?