Amazon.com’s Whole Foods Market doesn’t want to be forced to let workers wear “Black Lives Matter” masks and is pointing to the recent US Supreme Court ruling permitting a business owner to refuse services to same-sex couples to get federal regulators to back off.
National Labor Relations Board prosecutors have accused the grocer of stifling worker rights by banning staff from wearing BLM masks or pins on the job. The company countered in a filing that its own rights are being violated if it’s forced to allow BLM slogans to be worn with Whole Foods uniforms.
Amazon is the most prominent company to use the high court’s June ruling that a Christian web designer was free to refuse to design sites for gay weddings, saying the case “provides a clear roadmap” to throw out the NLRB’s complaint.
The dispute is one of several in which labor board officials are considering what counts as legally-protected, work-related communication and activism on the job.
You can get mad at Amazon, but really it’s the Supreme Court you should be mad at. Amazon is going to take advantage of whatever it thinks will make them more money. The government is the thing that is supposed to keep them in check.
Edit: A lot of people seem to be reading something different from what I wrote. I didn’t say you shouldn’t be mad at Amazon, or that Amazon isn’t at fault for their own actions. What I did say is that you should expect this type of behavior from a business and should expect our government to do a better job at keeping this behavior in check.
I’m mad at both. Amazon is trash. The current court is trash. And all the ghouls that got us this shit ass court are trash, from Mcconnell to Trump to every dummy that votes for Trump to the stupid stupid Democrats who didn’t fight tooth and nail when Obama’s pick didn’t get a hearing and didn’t pack the courts at the 1st opportunity. Oh and fuck RGB who should have fucking retired at the start of Obama’s 1st term. Octogenarians who survived multiple bouts of cancer don’t have the luxury of hanging out so the 1st female president gets to appoint their successor. Democrats are so fucking inept it’s hard to believe that they aren’t sandbagging us on purpose
it’s hard to believe that they aren’t sandbagging us on purpose
It’s hard to believe that they’re not doing it on purpose exactly because they are doing it on purpose. The system isn’t broken, it’s doing exactly what it is designed to do. You cannot use the system against itself. Voting helps prevent the greater evil but that just gets you the lesser evil. If you want an answer that is not evil at all, we need to create that entirely separately, outside of the established system and politics.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. You’re right on every account. We’re still seeing it in action as Feinstein refuses to step down and backing up the appointment of judges. RBG and Feinstein both destroyed their legacies by hanging on to power for far too long. It’s insane that Mitt Romney, of all people, is the one I agree with. He’s not going to run and encouraged other old people to stop running and let the next generation have a chance.
I’ll take both please
When the corporations can fund the politicians there is no difference between them.
“Amazon is going to take advantage of whatever it thinks will make them more money.”
Yea I will in fact get mad at that kind of behavior. Lots of businesses doing it (and commenters like you normalizing it) doesn’t make them less responsible for their shitty behavior.
what the fuck is this shit, on my lemmy? fuck them both is the only sane conclusion, not “it’s a business so it’s fine”
I can get mad at Amazon and Supreme Court at the same time, but not for this. Having uniform requirements is reasonable thing to do, especially for customer facing employees.
Getting mad is not important. Making society better is. And everyone involved is responsible for their own actions.
These people are morons with 8th grade reading comprehension skills.
Come to think of it, maybe they are in fact 8th graders?
Fuck Wholefoods
None of my homies shop at Wholefoods
You don’t shop at Whole Foods because of it’s policies.
I don’t shop at Whole Foods because I don’t believe in paying $4 for a apple.
We are not the same.
It’s $6, grandpa.
It’s Amazon/Whole Foods’ policies that lead to charging such ridiculous prices for their items. You are the same, even if you don’t realize it.
Whole Foods was charging ridiculous prices long before Amazon got involved.
True. And that hasn’t changed either.
I absolutely would be willing to pay 4 or more for an apple, if it were local, and profits go to a local farm. I’m aware that means I eat in-season then too
So just drive to your local farmers market. Get a pound or two for $5 and cut out the middle man. I go occasionally, I get good deals like $1 massive sweet onions, 3 for $1 bell peppers (like softball sized ones), etc. Go early though, they usually sell before official times and are sold out within 3 hours (restaurants hit them hard)
I do
I live very close to the largest continuous fruit growing area in Europe. In-season 5kg crates go for five Euros, at the end of the season as low as one euro for 5kg on clearance. Don’t expect fancy-pants new strains to go at that price, though, it’s going to be Elstar or Holstein Cox.
And, fun sidenote: Out of season it’s indeed more CO2-advantageous for us to import apples from New Zealand than to store them. Buy apple sauce.
Out of season it’s indeed more CO2-advantageous for us to import apples from New Zealand than to store them
Not necessarily true, it would depend on the how clean the energy source of the refrigeration is. The only other major CO2Eq emission from storage of perishables is refrigerant leakage, but in most commercial scale usages that’s really low.
There isn’t one in my town so boycott goin strong for N years?
Idk that 5% cash back is hard to beat. I mean sure, fuck amazon for being anti-union, definitely need to trust bust them to but until then I can’t get 5% cash back when buying household goods anywhere else.
That 5% would be great, if WF wasn’t like 50% more expensive LOL
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/whole-foods-vs-trader-joe-180008164.html
Reminder that Amazon is funding cop city https://news.littlesis.org/2022/11/15/meet-the-major-corporations-and-cultural-institutions-helping-build-cop-city-in-atlanta/
It’s not “Whole Foods” it’s Amazon. Whole Foods died when Amazon bought them.
source: I’m from Austin and know several people that work there from employees to management. They killed everything that was whole foods.
iiuc, wf is not saying that customers can’t wear BLM masks. They don’t want to show a political stance and, as a result, don’t want BLM masks worn by their employees, because that could be misconstrued as wf or Amazon taking a political stance. I can understand that. However, they, then, must ban ALL shows of politics in their store by them and their employees, and that includes LGBTQIA+ stuff. Otherwise, they’re just banning BLM stuff, which will be
misconstrued (notice the crossed out ‘mis’) as them taking a political stance against black folks.imagine realizing this and going “they should ban queer people” instead of “banning politics is impossible because there’s no such thing as an apolitical stance”
You’re right. Banning politics is impossible. That’s my point. I don’t think anyone can logically argue against the stance that black lives matter nor against the stance that the LGBTQIA+ folk lives matter. However, by taking the stance that BLM masks are not allowed but other masks are allowed, Amazon is also taking the stance that black lives don’t matter. Whether or not this is intentional, is irrelevant.
I’ll give you an example of a workplace doing it mostly right. My old employer didn’t do many things right, but for political stances, they did. “No graphics, logos, or lettering, unless Company’s, on shirts, jackets, pants, etc. is allowed while inside the building, whether on shift or off” When covid hit, this extended to the masks with the “etc.” part. When George Floyd was murdered, for example, some of the employees (myself, and HR, included) wanted to wear the “I can’t breathe” masks. We weren’t allowed. Some of us did anyway, and just prepared to take the write-up. The write-up never came, because corporate silently supported us and the stances we took. However, rules are rules, so we got a “talking to” and a tisk-tisk finger wave.
Banning potentially offensive political stances in the workplace is important to a degree, but you have to understand that some things are not political stances so much as they are supporting the lives and rights of other humans. After Amazon management staff had pools going on who of their floor employees would die next from covid during the start of it all, I highly doubt that the company understands (or cares about) the value of human life, so it’s no surprise they’re banning BLM masks from their employees. Whole foods, I know. But wf is Amazon.
However, by taking the stance that BLM masks are not allowed but other masks are allowed, Amazon is also taking the stance that black lives don’t matter. Whether or not this is intentional, is irrelevant.
This isn’t the stance though…
The policy is literally NO Logos/branding on ANYTHING. Their rules even call out wearing shirts that are ONE color… The point is to wear simple plain clothes. The issue isn’t anything related to BLM or any other political stance… It’s that the workers are violating basic dress codes.
If you’re a lifeguard… and the dress uniform is a white shirt and red shorts so you’re identifiable in your job at the pool… And you come wearing tie-dye sweat pants, a metallica t-shirt, and a nascar hat… I’m not anti-metal or anti-nascar for telling you to change your clothing or leave.
The BLM part of this is irrelevant as that’s not what the dress code/policy takes offense with.
This went to court already and was dismissed because there was no evidence that the policy was targeting the plaintiffs… or that it was applied unfairly. This court case was fucking 8 months ago… https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-dismisses-whole-foods-workers-lawsuit-over-black-lives-matter-masks-2023-01-23/ Why is this coming up now as a big deal?
That’s great. The article was scant with its details, so I appreciate your efforts here. I somehow doubted that wf would be so brazen, and I’m glad to see I was right with this assumption.
On one hand, I agree with you
On the other hand, how do we live in such a fucking hellscape that “black lives matter” is a politically charged statement and not an obvious fact. Same for LGBTQIA+ folks deserving equality. (frustration not pointed at you, but at the social climate)
I agree with you completely. It’s unacceptable.
Interesting that pride stuff is considered political because my shitty mega corporate big box employer considered a BLM shirt political but let us wear our pride pins whenever because that was within the dress code
How dare our employees imply to the general public that we think Black Lives Matter!
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Being tired and thinking Bureau of Land Management made this very confusing at glance.
Also fuck the courts for that BS.
Time to start wearing a mask that says Union
What a wild hill to die on.
Why does anybody think it’s a good idea to wear political statements into work? Just do your job.
Imagine if you ran a business and one of your customer-facing employees showed up in a MAGA hat. You’d probably want them to leave it at home right?
Holy shit. So Amazon and Whole Foods are just openly racist now. Not even trying to hide it anymore.
Conservatives will be celebrating as soon as they have someone read this article to them.
Amazon bought Whole Foods, they’re the same company now.
Jesus y’all. Let me spell this out plainly.
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BLM is a political organization.
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Wearing BLM gear is a political statement.
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Whole Foods doesn’t want employee uniforms to make a political statement.
Bet every single person here would be pleased if this was about banning Trump masks. I’ll give you a crisp $20 bill if those are allowed. Or any other sort of political speech.
The fact that there is an organization of the same name does not mean they own the slogan. People using the slogan almost never do so in reference to this organization nor are necessarily even aware that such an organization exists.
BLM is more of a human rights statement. Anything is “political” if the right choses to whine about it. An example is putting pronouns on name tags. It’s a great idea to ensure employees are addressed correctly and frankly shouldn’t be any more political than a name tag containing your name, but the right choses to view them as political because they need a constant culture war.
This might mean something if “BLM” was owned by an organization.
So Black Lives Matter is not a political slogan, let alone an organization? Saying Black Lives Matter means nothing to anyone except by taking it literally? Nothing to do with politics whatsoever?
By that metric any opinion is political.
You only think it’s political because conservatives don’t like it.
The statement Black Lives Matter is not political, you absolute ham sandwich…
On its own it’s not, but it definitely is in the current political and cultural context. There’s no getting away from that. It’s going to provoke a political reaction in any conservative and there’s no point in pretending otherwise.
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That’s an indictment of Conservatism. What are they trying to Conserve and when was America great? Cause it was not great for folks of color or queer folk back then, and we wont go back.
I can and do agree with everything you argue while also maintaining the objectively obvious fact that context matters in politics.
The statement itself shouldn’t be political in its sentiment, but obviously the organization exists and it has its own policy positions, events, advocacy, and I can go to their website to donate. I think it’s fairly obvious which one Whole Foods would be concerned with.
Ah, so if I wear a hat at work that says “save babies” and then an organization pops up called “Save babies” and they start donating to politicians, should I no longer be allowed to wear my “Save Babies” hat?
Yup
If the company you’re representing would prefer you didn’t, then sure.
Let’s use another example, if someone was a big supporter of fascism and was wearing a hat or mask that said, “save fascists”, would you prefer the store couldn’t prevent them from wearing that?
How bad would the phrase have to get to change your mind?
I’d say the difference comes down to choice. You choose to be a fascist. You choose to be a trump supporter. You don’t choose to be black. You don’t chose to be an infant.
Examples. If you wore a SPLC clothing article, I think the employer would be allowed to object, but if you wore clothing showing support for women, or indigenous people, then they should abide it.
So you deny that BLM is a political org?
They sure seem to be calling for political action.
Having a just cause does not make a movement apolitical. Agreeing with that cause does not make the statement apolitical.
You seem to have your emotions mixed up with facts. And here I thought that was a conservative trait.
While I would agree that it is political, it’s because it is a movement and has become political. The organization was created after the movement and does not necessarily reflect the will or intentions of the actual movement. It’s like if back in the day there was an org called Women’s Suffrage. It doesn’t mean the focus of all people who want women’s suffrage are part of an organization named that after the movement started.
Women’s suffrage is probably the worst example you could have chosen – in what way is fighting for the right to vote not inherently political?
I was saying that BLM is a political movement. It’s not necessarily an organization.
I refer you to Skunk Anansie, though.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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Then neither is “Make America Great Again”
That’s multiple candidates campaign slogans. It’s was a Republican presidential slogan in 64 and 80, very famously part of Reagan’s campaign.
The statement itself is as political as the statement “black lives matter”.
Let me make it a little more clear: how about “All lives matter”?
BLM is a political organization.
This is like saying “Trump has Little Hands” is a political organization because some guy wants to copyright “Trump has Little Hands” to sell on merch. Absolutely ridiculous take and it clearly show where you stand on these sorts of issues.
Let me spell it out plainly:
- BLM is a movement concerned with police brutality against minorities
- There is a political organization called BLM, but nobody but right wing whack jobs gives a shit about that organization
- There is also the Bureau of Land Management that is also refereed to with the acronym BLM,
- Somehow you know BLM on a mask doesn’t refer to the Bureau of Land Management but you’re being deliberately stupid it referring to a political organization and not the movement.
- Jeff Bezos isn’t going to give you any money no matter how wide you spread your asshole for him.
You are really jumping through some hoops to prove that the saying, “Black Lives Matter” has nothing to do with politics. Say it out loud for us. Say it’s not a slogan and has no ties to political views.
Not accepting facts contrary to your position? How very conservative of you.
No matter how far left I am, there’s always assholes like you pushing people back to the right. I’m not going right because a bunch a angry teenagers are… angry. But you’re not doing the liberal cause any justice here. In fact, you’re actively hurting it.
Are you saying black lives don’t matter?
Where is the debate on the statement “black lives matter”? Please argue against that statement.
No what you’re saying is that the statement has been politicized by bad actors. But those are the politics of the bad actors, not politics around the statement itself.
Should the depiction of the Earth as being round be banned as well? There is controversy around that, by idiots and grifters of course, but how is it different about the controversy around BLM?
Surely you share the same opinion about those who wear gear that says “All lives matter”? They’re just good people preaching a message of love?
Maybe I would if I bash my head into a wall enough to cause enough brain damage that I don’t understand that “all lives matter” is part of the politicization effort by bad actors.
See there is an actual real world where people did things with motives that are very well understood. If your “logical” arguments are completely dependent on ignoring specific realities, it’s not really a logical argument at all. Demanding someone ignore reality so you can have a big “aha! I proved you to be a hypocrite!” kind of moment is rather silly isn’t it?
So you only bashed your head enough to not understand that the phrase “Black Lives Matter” is borne out of a social/political movement?
Are you saying all lives don’t matter?
Where is the debate on the statement “all lives matter”? Please argue against that statement.
No. Because they are in bad faith inverting the wording of the phrase to sound like “muh common sense” but in reality are just reactionary contrarians that are communicating their social conservative opinions.
Saying Black Lives Matter is only political to right wing racists who believe that the status quo, that Black Lives Don’t Matter, is fine.
So it’s political then? Just because one side of the spectrum has heinous beliefs does not make a thing non-political.
It’s both because one side wants it to be to diminish its power. But at its core it’s a human rights issue. It’s the words Black Lives Matter, strange if you get upset hearing that and think it’s purely political and should be snuffed out where you don’t like facing it. 🤔
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If this thing was a fight to wear “Make America Great Again!” masks, these people would sing a different tune. And some ass will be along to explain how that’s totally different…
The whole notion of BLM is political. In the same sense that no one denies making America great is a bad thing, no one denies black lives matter. Yet they are political slogans, end of story. Whole Foods does not want employees wearing controversial political slogans.
I’ve supported the idea of BLM from day 1. Even dumped a right-wing buddy I was slowly turning around. I have zero patience for the haters. Zero. But if I owned a business, employees would not be wearing anything that even smelled of politics.
These children can’t get their emotions untied from facts.
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AFAIK the ruling about serving same sex couples specifically relates to “compelled speech”, which means it definitely doesn’t apply in this context and Amazon is hoping that right wing courts will expand the ruling (they might).
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Companies have no rights unlimited genocide on corporate personhood
In that case, the workers should wear union masks instead.
After reading this, why am I getting a feeling in my stomach that reminds me of being on a roller coaster right before a big drop? Why do I feel like all of America is going to be like that very soon?
My gut says it’s going to be more complicated than that. I believe in people and at a certain point the reactionary stuff is going to overplay their hand and I think we’re already seeing it.
At a certain point this stuff just breaks down, people will lose their patience. In my wildest dreams the 2020 riots were a kind of dress rehearsal for something more organized in the future. Eventually I think liberals might lose their ability to usurp movements.
Don’t get me wrong, we’re headed for bad times, but we don’t have to feel doomed. Believe in people.
I believe in a subset of people. But that subset of people is not enough to prevent things from getting very ugly.
I expect we’ll have something to eclipse 2020. But I also expect there’s going to be a very strong reactionary backlash waiting in the wings again. I’m hoping to secure more viable refuges by that point.
Oh yeah, there will be a bigger reactionary backlash, and that backlash will cause even more “normal unaffiliated” people to realize what’s at stake. I don’t mean to sound accelerationist or apocalyptic, but everything has a breaking point and pronounced change only comes through conflict.
I think we’re seeing a little bit of it through the abortion bans. People are genuinely pissed off about that.
We just have to hope there will be enough people who won’t tolerate reactionaries. I can’t say what will happen, but you’re right, it might get very ugly soon. But at the same time we can’t say we’re already defeated
The abortion ban is why I disagree with your take. Liberals said if abortion gets banned they were gonna riot and stayed out in the streets for exactly 2 or 3 days. Liberals have trained a lot of people to think we can vote our way out of anything. They don’t even really support things like abortion related mutual aid bc stuff like that is seen as lesser importance than defeating Trump (or whoever the next Republican is.)
I don’t think we are defeated but winning isn’t gonna come from us reacting to terrible things happening, it’s gonna come from more proactive organizing before shit hits the fan.
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there’s a balance. arming up and prepping without organizations is pointless - the paramilitaries will crush a lone homesteader. community defense requires a whole community.
If you harbor 5 fugitives, you have something to fear from the government. If you harbor 500 fugitives, the government has something to fear from you.
What I’m saying is, when the time comes, I hope you’ll have way more than 2 cows.
I’m not saying we are or will be vanquished. I am saying that the balance of guns and land is not in our favor (although the balance of distribution infrastructure is slightly in favor of the libs).
Liberals will largely stand by if fascism takes over, especially in this country. One of the best hopes we have is that the military would crack down on a coup, and the balance of representation in the military is very much not in our favor. The other best hope is balkanization or at least devolution, where state and local governments become more relevant than the federal government and this allows us to thrive in pockets.
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it’s a cycle that keeps escalating so long as profits get squeezed tighter and tighter. at some point the whole system breaks and the only question is who seizes power when that happens. if we have orgs and can channel popular discontent, it will be us. if not, we’ll be posting from the camps. the future is not yet written - projecting the present forward into the future is good at telling you what will happen next week but it’s a shitty approximation before you even get out to a year.
Any way you put it, things are going to get crazy. That’s why I’m getting that feeling.
